Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Jul 23, 2013, 11:37 am
#1501
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
I thought not!
______________________________________________
I asked you to direct me to where or when I ever stated "that this was going all the way to a jury verdict."
All you did was post some pieces of various posts that discussed possible settlement or if a judge made a decision. Nothing you posted even resembles what you said I previously wrote. Furthermore, I never discussed a jury.
You should check your facts before you make statements that you cannot support.
The one portion of my posts that used the word "jury" was not discussing the million-mile case. The word "jury" had to do with the definition of "life" and "lifetime" as it applies to countless issues, not just the UA issue. You have to "connect the dots"
Last edited by dgcpaphd; Jul 23, 2013 at 11:48 am Reason: clarification
Jul 23, 2013, 11:47 am
#1502
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,024
Smisek has not used the word "mass" but he has, on many occasions in news conferences and other media, acknowledged that UA lost a large segment of business and other travelers.
The word "mass" came from AA in that they acknowledged status matching "thousands" of UA elites (AA, in bankruptcy, just reported more than a two hundred million dollar quarterly profit).
UA losing thousands of elites means losing thousands of dollars of income. This loss of income is reflected in UA's financial statements over the past five quarters ended March 31, 2013 (more than a billion dollars of losses).
The joke is referring to the enormous amount of lost revenue as a "slight trickle."
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The word "mass" came from AA in that they acknowledged status matching "thousands" of UA elites (AA, in bankruptcy, just reported more than a two hundred million dollar quarterly profit).
UA losing thousands of elites means losing thousands of dollars of income. This loss of income is reflected in UA's financial statements over the past five quarters ended March 31, 2013 (more than a billion dollars of losses).
The joke is referring to the enormous amount of lost revenue as a "slight trickle."
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Jul 23, 2013, 11:47 am
#1503
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Will you be so kind as to direct me to where or when I ever stated such a[n] *** assertion [edited by Moderator to remove unduly personalized language]?
I thought not!
______________________________________________
I asked you to direct me to where or when I ever stated "that this was going all the way to a jury verdict."
All you did was post some pieces of various posts that discussed possible settlement or if a judge made a decision. Nothing you posted even resembles what you said I previously wrote. Furthermore, I never discussed a jury.
You should check your facts before you make statements that you cannot support.
The one portion of my posts that used the word "jury" was not discussing the million-mile case. The word 'jury' had to do with the definition of "life" and "lifetime" as it applies to countless issues.
I thought not!
______________________________________________
I asked you to direct me to where or when I ever stated "that this was going all the way to a jury verdict."
All you did was post some pieces of various posts that discussed possible settlement or if a judge made a decision. Nothing you posted even resembles what you said I previously wrote. Furthermore, I never discussed a jury.
You should check your facts before you make statements that you cannot support.
The one portion of my posts that used the word "jury" was not discussing the million-mile case. The word 'jury' had to do with the definition of "life" and "lifetime" as it applies to countless issues.
Last edited by colpuck; Jul 23, 2013 at 12:32 pm
Jul 23, 2013, 11:53 am
#1504
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,171
Even if it's not a permanent bulk exodus (though I'm sure it's happened in some small degree) - he's "succeeded" in turningly formerly completely loyal flyers into United agnostics...that's the bigger issue
Jul 23, 2013, 11:55 am
#1505
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
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You stated the mass exodus was because of "breach of promised lifetime benefits". If there is a mass exodus, it's not because of that. There are not enough MM qualifiers to cause a mass exodus. If people are leaving, it's not primarily because of what you staed the reason was.
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However, because this thread relates to the million-mile lawsuit, I included only those folks in my post. Most of us know of the other reasons former loyal elites lost their loyalty to UA.
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Yes, they do confirm that your post wherein you stated that I wanted a jury trial was not correct. Thank you for complying with my request.
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Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 23, 2013 at 3:57 pm Reason: merge
Jul 23, 2013, 6:11 pm
#1506
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
I have not left because I still enjoy the limited benefits that they still offer - including relatively available award travel (at least when I need/want to go, where I need/want to go, in the class I want = mostly domestically between major cities.) On the other hand, I have zero paid trips so far this year.
I do believe the quote in BOLD (added by me) above.
I am also horrified by the comments I hear from friends and colleagues about how bad COdbaUA is!
For instance, last Friday on UA #793 ORD - LAX I over heard at least 2 coach customers complaining about how bad UA is! While 2 pax on a 752 is not a lot, there were a lot of people who heard what was being said. That can be destructive to a company's reputation. (By the way - I was an unsuccessful #10 on the upgrade list.)
Except maybe for UA's gold offer from Marriott, I am hard pressed to see what UA is doing to stem the flow of bad publicity and ill feeling. THAT is what management (in my opinion) should be doing!
Jul 23, 2013, 6:30 pm
#1507
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
... I have not left because I still enjoy the limited benefits that they still offer - including relatively available award travel (at least when I need/want to go, where I need/want to go, in the class I want = mostly domestically between major cities.) On the other hand, I have zero paid trips so far this year.
How does UA feel about 1K's? Simple. They are the same as all other elite fliers. Just look at the boarding process... military and GS (no problem with that)... then ALL Zone 1. We fly 2x... 3x... 4x or more... and we can board with the rest.
I understand why military and GS first... why not 1K next? They even treat International First Class as nothing special. I am actually on PAID international First Class ticket this week. I will be invited to board at the same time as all other Zone 1.
Jul 23, 2013, 6:57 pm
#1508
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
However, a reasonable person would not have gutted UA's frequent flier program the way it was gutted.
A reasonable person would not have publicly told loyal "elite" customers that they are over entitled.
A reasonable person would acknowledge and reverse an erroneous business model and other decisions that have driven away thousands of loyal customers.
A reasonable person would not have caused several lawsuits to be filed against the company for intentionally breaching lifetime and other promises made by UA.
A reasonable person would be horrified at causing UA to generate far in excess of a billion dollars in losses during the five quarters ended March 31, 2013.
A reasonable person would not repeatedly announce at public meetings that UA is doing well, when it isn't.
With luck, the class action filed on behalf of million-milers will cause the current management at UA to realize that they are at cross purposes with retention of loyal customers and profitably operating UA.
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Aug 31, 2013, 9:46 pm
#1509
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Any updates on how this class action is proceeding?
.
.
Aug 31, 2013, 10:52 pm
#1510
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
This suit is on behalf of all pre-merger United Airline Million Mile Flyers who flew 1,000,000 actual miles (or more) before the merger to obtain LIFETIME promised benefits. The only way all this will go away is (1) a jury decides one way or the other, (2) a settlement is reached, which will have to include ALL PMUA MMF, or, (3) the decision we are currently waiting for from the judge does not give our claim class action certification. We should know hopefully by the end of the year #3 referenced above, which is all on-line on pacer.gov. Whatever the case, the good fight is being fought and imagine all the time, energy, and resources going into this - incredible.
We wait and fight the good fight for what is just. Other airlines and companies promising their customers "lifetime" bennies must be looking at this very closely because this will set a legal precedent.
Have a great Labour Day everyone!
UG
PS Someone made reference about discovery and finding out how many PMUA MMF there are - right now the case has not been class certified and only limited discovery has been done.
When the judge gives a claim class action status, the company being sued has to contact everyone that falls into the class action category informing them what is happening, etc.
PPS Those who were at the threshold of 1MM actual miles - if in the chance the MMile Flyer suit wins, maybe those -10% below might be included. Lets just wait. Keep the faith!
We wait and fight the good fight for what is just. Other airlines and companies promising their customers "lifetime" bennies must be looking at this very closely because this will set a legal precedent.
Have a great Labour Day everyone!
UG
PS Someone made reference about discovery and finding out how many PMUA MMF there are - right now the case has not been class certified and only limited discovery has been done.
When the judge gives a claim class action status, the company being sued has to contact everyone that falls into the class action category informing them what is happening, etc.
PPS Those who were at the threshold of 1MM actual miles - if in the chance the MMile Flyer suit wins, maybe those -10% below might be included. Lets just wait. Keep the faith!
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Aug 31, 2013 at 11:06 pm
Sep 1, 2013, 12:47 am
#1511
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
^
So glad the good fight is being fought.
So glad the good fight is being fought.
Sep 1, 2013, 9:07 am
#1512
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just outside Big D, or many other places in big metal tubes
Programs: WN Rpd.Rwrds, AA, was longtime CO very top Elite tier, Overentitled UA Lifetime 1K (since 2012)
Posts: 1,334
Sep 1, 2013, 12:28 pm
#1513
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
Sep 1, 2013, 12:48 pm
#1514
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
When the judge gives a claim class action status, the company being sued has to contact everyone that falls into the class action category informing them what is happening, etc.
Sep 1, 2013, 1:51 pm
#1515
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
This is an interest observation, indeed.
UA regards the number of million-milers as “privileged information.” When previously asked about the number of participants, UA has refused to divulge the information to those who ask including reporters who wrote about the legal action when it was filed last year.
If the judge assigned to the case agrees to “certify” it, the well-guarded information will then be a public record and we will know how many people have the million-mile status.
The mere number of million-milers will not reveal a lot about possible future costs.
However, if data from UA includes information relative to when the member reached million-mile status and how often the member uses UA, a very rough estimate can be calculated to forecast the amount of the future costs UA would save from removing promised benefits.
It is possible that the cost savings will not begin to reach the costs of defending the class action or the loss of revenue and future revenue from former loyal customers (both million-milers and non million-milers) that left UA because of the breach of various other non million-mile benefits in addition to the promised lifetime benefits.
First, certification - next - hopefully, enough data will be released by UA to allow for a rough estimate of saved costs less lost revenue.
One thing, for sure, cannot be measured. That is the disappointment that countless UA customers experienced from being on the receiving end of UA breaching lifetime promised benefits.
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