Originally Posted by andrewwm

Deadheading is when the company, for operational reasons, decides it needs a pilot that is based in SFO to fly a plane in ORD. Since it is the company forcing the pilot to go to an out-of-the-way place, rather than a choice by the employee , pilots asked for, and received as part of their contract, the right to sit in F in these situations.

Deadheading is a much, much less common occurrence than commuting.

Originally Posted by bniu

Think of deadheading crew as employees required by their company to travel somewhere to carry out a task. In this case, their employer happens to be United, which bought its employees first class seats on United. It's no different than any other company (say JP Morgan) buying their employees first class tickets to travel for business purposes...

Originally Posted by star_world

Let's not turn this into an emotional debate. You don't have to "think" about what a receipt for a ticket is - there's a contract of carriage that governs that transaction to a high level of detail: http://pss.united.com/web/en-us/cont...f_Carriage.pdf

It includes specific compensation structures for involuntary downgrades, etc. It's as simple as that - not a guarantee that you get to sit in any specific class. All airlines operate this way.

Originally Posted by Worldbuilder

so...let me get this straight:

UA requires themselves to stay committed to the contracts they make with their pilots, but could give a rat's ... about the contracts they make with their customers??? (which, when you think about it, is what a receipt for a First Class seat is)

Seems to me that without the customers, there's no need for a pilot.

Originally Posted by bniu

Think of deadheading crew as employees required by their company to travel somewhere to carry out a task. In this case, their employer happens to be United, which bought its employees first class seats on United. It's no different than any other company (say JP Morgan) buying their employees first class tickets to travel for business purposes...

Originally Posted by andrewwm

Commuting to work pilots only get F if all other paying customers have been accommodated (i.e. upgrades, etc.).

Pilots forced by the company to reposition themselves to fly an airplane (i.e. 777 pilot is in LA but needed for operational reasons in SFO) are entitled to F, which is a much smaller percentage of the cases of pilots getting to work. And I'd rather have a rested pilot flying me than not, but what do I know.

Originally Posted by Weez_1000

I had a very similar situation happen to me a few years ago from SJD-EWR. I was on a paid F ticket along with my wife. We printed our boarding passes at the hotel, get to airport, check-in and the person behind the desk took our boarding passes, checked our passports, handed us back on our boarding passes and said I had to split you up (in broken english) I looked and I got downgraded. She told me to call when i got back to the states and they would issue a refund for the difference and a $200 voucher. I said if i wanted to fly in coach I would have bought a coach ticket. She then made believe she didnt understand what I was trying to say.

Long story short, I get on the plane and give a pilot a nesty look that is now sitting in my seat in F next to my wife. Everyone played stupid, i eventually found out from (Scott UA_Insider) there was a broken jump seat in the cockpit. Still not sure why that was my problem and Scott was very apologetic and thru in another voucher that I think brought the total to $500 which was a very nice gesture on his part but still way less then I wanted. Again, if I wanted to sit in coach I would have bought a coach ticket.

Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR

You yourself said the customer was re-booked onto this flight.. it was not his original flight. If it were, he would not have been ousted from F by a pilot. In this case, the pilot likely already had a confirmed seat on the flight and this new guy came along and needed a seat but all of the F seats were already taken. He had the option to take another flight later I'm sure if he wanted F. He accepted economy.. and as I said will get downgrade comp if he asks for it.

A contract is a contract.. UA pilots have a contract negotiated by their union and the company is required to abide by it. They did not violate the contract with the customer in this case because he did not take his original flight..he was re-booked on a different flight that simply didn't have the class he paid for available. Also, even full F fares have provisions in the fare rules that allow for operational downgrades with appropriate compensation.

You can debate whether or not having confirmed F class for pilots in a contract is a bad thing, but it's part of their compensation package and the company has to honor it.

Originally Posted by cv11nyc

'Nesty look' to the guy who was there to get you back from vacation, nicely played. I understand completely what happened in the above scenario. Not only was the remedy taken required to get the flight back to EWR it also wasn't the fault of the First Officer you gave a 'nesty look' towards. While SJD staff should have handled the situation better you lost any shred of empathy by turning your anger out on a working flight deck member who was following FAA Mandated procedures.

Originally Posted by LilAbner

...3 of the 4 incidents above are people (and I'm not so sure if it ain't all 4) sticking their noses in other peoples business, and not one shred of evidence has been proven that any rules have been broken, and mostly everything written and responded to is pure speculation as to what really occurred.

Originally Posted by Weez_1000

What should have happened is they should have been honest about what happened THEN they should have given ME the choice of flying out on the next available flight in F with my wife. That's what SHOULD have happened. Instead, they played the race game, me no English....call when you get back.. And again what should have happened was the guy who had his upgrade clear SHOULD have been IVD. That would have reIquired the check in agent to speak English (certainly possible based on my discussions with her) And a crew that would have followed thru on protocol of downgrading an upgraded passenger before a paid F customer.

Originally Posted by cv11nyc

So the First Officer who was sitting where Continental's FAA Mandated Procedures require relief pilots to sit got the dirty sneer because????? The flight crew doesn't have any say in who sits in first at L-CAL so your protocol is imaginary. Nice aim though fella. As for guaranteed first on the next flight, if you know anything about the schedules out of SJD I guess you were prepared to spend the night somewhere besides home. BTW you call it the race game, but sorry to say it's reality. Trouble with communication at any airline south of the border happens fast save for maybe in Cancun and Mexico City.

Originally Posted by Weez_1000

And yes I gave him a nasty look. He had a right to first because his contract??

Originally Posted by Weez_1000

Ummm what did I have when I bought a F ticket?

Originally Posted by Weez_1000

Like I said previously, there should be an order in which downgrades get processed. Paid F should be the last to happen. And yes there were mileage upgrades that happened on this articular flight. I had 60 employees on the flight.

Originally Posted by LilAbner

3 of the 4 incidents above are people (and I'm not so sure if it ain't all 4) sticking their noses in other peoples business, and not one shred of evidence has been proven that any rules have been broken, and mostly everything written and responded to is pure speculation as to what really occurred.