Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Nov 15, 2013, 9:16 pm
#2341
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 29
open up, but I will book some return onto the same res before departure, so its all on one PNR and considered a return.
This is what I was have managed to book:
Outbound:
LAX-BOS-MUC (stop under 24 hrs) - FRA - NRT 67,500
Inbound: (will book before departure)
NRT-MUC (Stop for 3-5 days) - LAX 67,500
For the outbound, I was hoping to change that to:
LAX-DFW-FRA-MUC (stop under 24 hrs) - FRA - NRT
Nov 15, 2013, 10:48 pm
#2342
Used to be garyjr316
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LAX or SBA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, Gold Passport, Hilton HHonors, Marriott
Posts: 800
Hypothetically if I am able to find award space on a segment by segment search, if my route is within what United allows, I should have no problem booking this over the phone. Right?
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
Nov 15, 2013, 11:11 pm
#2343
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD,TPE (芝加哥,台北)
Programs: UA MileagePlus (1P)
Posts: 384
Hypothetically if I am able to find award space on a segment by segment search, if my route is within what United allows, I should have no problem booking this over the phone. Right?
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
Nov 15, 2013, 11:13 pm
#2344
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Jose Cuervo Gold, Bud Light Platinum, Schwab 401K, VW Bug 2MM
Posts: 1,100
Hypothetically if I am able to find award space on a segment by segment search, if my route is within what United allows, I should have no problem booking this over the phone. Right?
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
I'm thinking LAX/SFO-MUC (stop under 24 hours), MUC-FRA (Destination? 7 Days) then FRA-BKK (less than 24 hours), BKK-NRT (7 Days), NRT-LAX/SFO
Will this work? I'm guessing availability out of LAX/SFO is going to be tough... would it be better to fly from another "home airport"? Suggestions would be great!
Nov 16, 2013, 8:20 am
#2345
Used to be garyjr316
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LAX or SBA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, Gold Passport, Hilton HHonors, Marriott
Posts: 800
Nov 16, 2013, 8:54 am
#2346
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 636
I have tried to book a one way ticket from ORD to BKK using United miles for several days but I could not figure out what I did wrong.
When I booked a one way ticket from ORD to BKK (transit at NRT), it showed 32,500 miles for me.
However, I want to stop over at NRT so I used multiple destination and booked ORD to NRT and NRT to BKK. It showed 47,500 miles for me in this case.
In both case, ORD to NRT is operated by UA and NRT to BKK is operated by ANA.
Can I do anything to get a free stop over at NRT?
When I booked a one way ticket from ORD to BKK (transit at NRT), it showed 32,500 miles for me.
However, I want to stop over at NRT so I used multiple destination and booked ORD to NRT and NRT to BKK. It showed 47,500 miles for me in this case.
In both case, ORD to NRT is operated by UA and NRT to BKK is operated by ANA.
Can I do anything to get a free stop over at NRT?
Nov 16, 2013, 10:14 am
#2347
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD,TPE (芝加哥,台北)
Programs: UA MileagePlus (1P)
Posts: 384
I have tried to book a one way ticket from ORD to BKK using United miles for several days but I could not figure out what I did wrong.
When I booked a one way ticket from ORD to BKK (transit at NRT), it showed 32,500 miles for me.
However, I want to stop over at NRT so I used multiple destination and booked ORD to NRT and NRT to BKK. It showed 47,500 miles for me in this case.
In both case, ORD to NRT is operated by UA and NRT to BKK is operated by ANA.
Can I do anything to get a free stop over at NRT?
When I booked a one way ticket from ORD to BKK (transit at NRT), it showed 32,500 miles for me.
However, I want to stop over at NRT so I used multiple destination and booked ORD to NRT and NRT to BKK. It showed 47,500 miles for me in this case.
In both case, ORD to NRT is operated by UA and NRT to BKK is operated by ANA.
Can I do anything to get a free stop over at NRT?
Nov 16, 2013, 10:49 am
#2348
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 129
valid routing?
I'm trying to book C class Japan-North America RT with Europe stopover.
NRT-TPE-CDG (stopover and open jaw)
LHR-YYZ (destination)
YYZ-ORD-NRT
Can I do open jaw at the stopover like this? Thanks in advance for help!
NRT-TPE-CDG (stopover and open jaw)
LHR-YYZ (destination)
YYZ-ORD-NRT
Can I do open jaw at the stopover like this? Thanks in advance for help!
Nov 16, 2013, 10:50 am
#2349
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
When booking an award US-SE Asia on the phone (route too tricky for .com), it seems that half the people realize it's legal to head e.g. JFK-HKG over the Pacific, yet stop over in say LHR on the way back; the other half decide this must be a (much pricier) round-the-world award and shunt you immediately to the "Alliance Desk" in darkest Utah.
I believe I read elsewhere in this thread that some memo went out recently limiting the number of segments allowed on a US-Asia RT award that crossed both oceans. I'd think the existence of this memo would prove that it's legal to do this. Is there some reference to this memo I can point out to a disbelieving agent, instead of using the HUACA method (which worked this time but can get irksome)?
I believe I read elsewhere in this thread that some memo went out recently limiting the number of segments allowed on a US-Asia RT award that crossed both oceans. I'd think the existence of this memo would prove that it's legal to do this. Is there some reference to this memo I can point out to a disbelieving agent, instead of using the HUACA method (which worked this time but can get irksome)?
Nov 16, 2013, 12:51 pm
#2350
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AA EXP & Life Plat; AA 4MM; TWA Life Plat; HH Diamond
Posts: 1,109
CONUS to Hawaii: Two Regions...Max Connection Time?
What is the maximum allowable connection time between the Continental US and Hawaii.
I'm seeing a flight connection with ~10hrs in PHX - which for International would be fine...but not sure what the limit is for 'hybrid' region Hawaii - which is kind of domestic where by rule there is a 4 hour maximum.
I'm seeing a flight connection with ~10hrs in PHX - which for International would be fine...but not sure what the limit is for 'hybrid' region Hawaii - which is kind of domestic where by rule there is a 4 hour maximum.
Nov 16, 2013, 2:11 pm
#2351
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 636
Thanks !!
I tried to book a multi-destination round trip like this
1) ORD -> NRT
2) NRT -> BKK
3) BKK -> ORD
4) ORD -> SFO
It gave me an error. My guess is that because there is no direct flight between BKK -> ORD so I could not take an advantage of an open jaw to get a free one-way right?
I tried to book a multi-destination round trip like this
1) ORD -> NRT
2) NRT -> BKK
3) BKK -> ORD
4) ORD -> SFO
It gave me an error. My guess is that because there is no direct flight between BKK -> ORD so I could not take an advantage of an open jaw to get a free one-way right?
Nov 16, 2013, 4:13 pm
#2352
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 151
Should I Keep Trying...?
I have the following economy saver award ticket booked...
RDU-IAD-IST Departing evening of 5/18 and arriving afternoon of 5/19
IST-NAP on 5/26
NAP-MUC-GVA all on 6/1
which priced out at 42,500 miles.
The fare calculation is as follows...
/FC RDU UA X/WAS TK IST TK NAP 0.00YSM/YC52 LH X/MUC LH GVA 0.00YSM/YC52G USD 0.00 END XT5.00AY15.00TR3.10EX9.00HB13.70IT1.10MJ4.60VT22.4 0RA
I don't understand everything in this fare calculation, but my assumption was that this was a round trip ticket with one stopover (IST), NAP as the destination, and one open jaw (start RDU, end GVA) which prices at 42.5K miles because ecconomy saver awards are 30K from RDU to NAP and 12.5K NAP to GVA.
I have twice tried to change the reservation to add a second open jaw at IST by adding a segment from IST to SZF on 5/19 and keeping everything else on the itinerary the same. The first time I tried the agent put me on hold and came back and said I could not do so because I am only allowed one open jaw, which goes against info in the Wiki on this thread and others' experience.
When I tried again a week later, the agent put me on hold and came back and said I could not add a stopover because this was a one-way ticket. This doesn't make sense because one-way tickets do not allow stopovers and it would seem I have a stopover either in IST or NAP. If this is not a round trip, then I should have been charged 30K RDU to IST, 12.5K IST to NAP, and 12.5K NAP to GVA or 55K instead of 42.5K award miles, correct? I didn't push the issue very hard with either agent as I was worried they might find something wrong with the routing I already have ticketed.
What does the fare description indicate as far as one way vs. round trip and, if I have a stopover, is IST the stopover and NAP the destination, or is IST the destination and NAP the stopover?
Should I be able to add the leg from IST to SZF?
RDU-IAD-IST Departing evening of 5/18 and arriving afternoon of 5/19
IST-NAP on 5/26
NAP-MUC-GVA all on 6/1
which priced out at 42,500 miles.
The fare calculation is as follows...
/FC RDU UA X/WAS TK IST TK NAP 0.00YSM/YC52 LH X/MUC LH GVA 0.00YSM/YC52G USD 0.00 END XT5.00AY15.00TR3.10EX9.00HB13.70IT1.10MJ4.60VT22.4 0RA
I don't understand everything in this fare calculation, but my assumption was that this was a round trip ticket with one stopover (IST), NAP as the destination, and one open jaw (start RDU, end GVA) which prices at 42.5K miles because ecconomy saver awards are 30K from RDU to NAP and 12.5K NAP to GVA.
I have twice tried to change the reservation to add a second open jaw at IST by adding a segment from IST to SZF on 5/19 and keeping everything else on the itinerary the same. The first time I tried the agent put me on hold and came back and said I could not do so because I am only allowed one open jaw, which goes against info in the Wiki on this thread and others' experience.
When I tried again a week later, the agent put me on hold and came back and said I could not add a stopover because this was a one-way ticket. This doesn't make sense because one-way tickets do not allow stopovers and it would seem I have a stopover either in IST or NAP. If this is not a round trip, then I should have been charged 30K RDU to IST, 12.5K IST to NAP, and 12.5K NAP to GVA or 55K instead of 42.5K award miles, correct? I didn't push the issue very hard with either agent as I was worried they might find something wrong with the routing I already have ticketed.
What does the fare description indicate as far as one way vs. round trip and, if I have a stopover, is IST the stopover and NAP the destination, or is IST the destination and NAP the stopover?
Should I be able to add the leg from IST to SZF?
Last edited by zink88; Nov 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Nov 16, 2013, 5:39 pm
#2353
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD,TPE (芝加哥,台北)
Programs: UA MileagePlus (1P)
Posts: 384
Thanks !!
I tried to book a multi-destination round trip like this
1) ORD -> NRT
2) NRT -> BKK
3) BKK -> ORD
4) ORD -> SFO
It gave me an error. My guess is that because there is no direct flight between BKK -> ORD so I could not take an advantage of an open jaw to get a free one-way right?
I tried to book a multi-destination round trip like this
1) ORD -> NRT
2) NRT -> BKK
3) BKK -> ORD
4) ORD -> SFO
It gave me an error. My guess is that because there is no direct flight between BKK -> ORD so I could not take an advantage of an open jaw to get a free one-way right?
Nov 17, 2013, 9:50 am
#2355
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: BOS
Programs: MP,MR Silver,Avis
Posts: 848