Hm. So even a GM on an award ticket can trump a 1k for upgrade
Dec 26, 2011, 7:16 pm
#61
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ATL
Programs: UA 3.6 MM, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,582
Pretty shocking stuff. DL is VERY transparent with their upsells at booking since they arent giving a secret black label upgrade discount. DL is merely trying to upsell you into the next highest PUBLISHED FARE (either F or flexible coach). UACO is using black label prices for upgrades and side-stepping elites.
I have booked flights for other GM and non-1k members and noticed A LOT of buy-up offers on dirt cheap coach tickets. I had assumed i didnt get these offers as in many cases i was already waiting patiently with my SWUs in place. Maybe i will start a duplicate MP account with no status and see if it is better to fly on upsells.
We owe kokonutz a great favor for posting this and getting the discussion started. If anyone hasnt figured out the message from the new UA management it is "your repeat business is worthless to us, because you were going to give it to us anyway". "The new customer is who we want and are willing to sell our premium cabin to them for less then checked baggage fees." This basically destroys million miler benefits as these are heavily reliant on UDU as most of us will be retired when we are leveraging million miler and UDU
Whats is shocking the stealthy way they are screwing their elites and hoping that nobody finds out. (welcome to the internet, it changes everything)
P.S. Kokonutz, was this on the CO website or the UA website that this jump the list to purchase the upgrade was offered? I am guessing this was the CO website as it seems far beyond what united.com could offer
P.P.S UA Insider, would be good to know the policy on this, so we can decide what do with our future business
I have booked flights for other GM and non-1k members and noticed A LOT of buy-up offers on dirt cheap coach tickets. I had assumed i didnt get these offers as in many cases i was already waiting patiently with my SWUs in place. Maybe i will start a duplicate MP account with no status and see if it is better to fly on upsells.
We owe kokonutz a great favor for posting this and getting the discussion started. If anyone hasnt figured out the message from the new UA management it is "your repeat business is worthless to us, because you were going to give it to us anyway". "The new customer is who we want and are willing to sell our premium cabin to them for less then checked baggage fees." This basically destroys million miler benefits as these are heavily reliant on UDU as most of us will be retired when we are leveraging million miler and UDU
Whats is shocking the stealthy way they are screwing their elites and hoping that nobody finds out. (welcome to the internet, it changes everything)
P.S. Kokonutz, was this on the CO website or the UA website that this jump the list to purchase the upgrade was offered? I am guessing this was the CO website as it seems far beyond what united.com could offer
P.P.S UA Insider, would be good to know the policy on this, so we can decide what do with our future business
Last edited by NeoOfTheCRS; Dec 26, 2011 at 7:22 pm Reason: P.S. and P.P.S
Dec 26, 2011, 7:51 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
I agree. Time for UA to weigh in.
Dec 26, 2011, 9:38 pm
#63
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 294
Yes, this is 100% the policy on international flights.
I had paid an extra ~$700 for a W fare vs. an L fare that my companion paid for the same flights IAD-LHR-IAD. I was on the w/l LHR-IAD. Watched as the seats in C dwindled. At 24 hours went to check in for myself and my GM companion. My companion was offered a buy-up for LESS than the difference between an L fare and a W fare. I was so
that I called UA to complain. The lady said I could get off the w/l and see if I got the same offer, but if I did not get that offer and went back on the w/l I would end up losing my place in line on the PA1 wait list.
That made me so angry that I told her to cancel my return ticket and booked a one-way award in F at a saver mileage rate.
That was the day I decided that I am willing to give up 1k status and instead pay Z or A fares for flights on whoever has the cheapest Z or A fare....because if I am going to be paying more, I actually want better class of service for that premium, not a dwindling chance at it while others buy it at check-in for less than my W fare difference on an offer that is not even made to me.
PA1 is now the WORST place to be at 24 hours before the flight: GMs will get buy-up offers that you won't see while you linger on the W/L. It's a sick joke of a policy.
I had paid an extra ~$700 for a W fare vs. an L fare that my companion paid for the same flights IAD-LHR-IAD. I was on the w/l LHR-IAD. Watched as the seats in C dwindled. At 24 hours went to check in for myself and my GM companion. My companion was offered a buy-up for LESS than the difference between an L fare and a W fare. I was so
that I called UA to complain. The lady said I could get off the w/l and see if I got the same offer, but if I did not get that offer and went back on the w/l I would end up losing my place in line on the PA1 wait list.That made me so angry that I told her to cancel my return ticket and booked a one-way award in F at a saver mileage rate.
That was the day I decided that I am willing to give up 1k status and instead pay Z or A fares for flights on whoever has the cheapest Z or A fare....because if I am going to be paying more, I actually want better class of service for that premium, not a dwindling chance at it while others buy it at check-in for less than my W fare difference on an offer that is not even made to me.
PA1 is now the WORST place to be at 24 hours before the flight: GMs will get buy-up offers that you won't see while you linger on the W/L. It's a sick joke of a policy.
As others have suggested, if you have not cleared by the OCLI window, be prepared to lose your position to GMs. Very dissapointing. Time for UA to weigh in on exactly what the policy is as we figure our 2012 plans.
Last edited by sshank; Dec 26, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Dec 26, 2011, 10:00 pm
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
Pretty shocking stuff. DL is VERY transparent with their upsells at booking since they arent giving a secret black label upgrade discount. DL is merely trying to upsell you into the next highest PUBLISHED FARE (either F or flexible coach). UACO is using black label prices for upgrades and side-stepping elites.
I have booked flights for other GM and non-1k members and noticed A LOT of buy-up offers on dirt cheap coach tickets. I had assumed i didnt get these offers as in many cases i was already waiting patiently with my SWUs in place. Maybe i will start a duplicate MP account with no status and see if it is better to fly on upsells.
We owe kokonutz a great favor for posting this and getting the discussion started. If anyone hasnt figured out the message from the new UA management it is "your repeat business is worthless to us, because you were going to give it to us anyway". "The new customer is who we want and are willing to sell our premium cabin to them for less then checked baggage fees." This basically destroys million miler benefits as these are heavily reliant on UDU as most of us will be retired when we are leveraging million miler and UDU
Whats is shocking the stealthy way they are screwing their elites and hoping that nobody finds out. (welcome to the internet, it changes everything)
P.S. Kokonutz, was this on the CO website or the UA website that this jump the list to purchase the upgrade was offered? I am guessing this was the CO website as it seems far beyond what united.com could offer
P.P.S UA Insider, would be good to know the policy on this, so we can decide what do with our future business
I have booked flights for other GM and non-1k members and noticed A LOT of buy-up offers on dirt cheap coach tickets. I had assumed i didnt get these offers as in many cases i was already waiting patiently with my SWUs in place. Maybe i will start a duplicate MP account with no status and see if it is better to fly on upsells.
We owe kokonutz a great favor for posting this and getting the discussion started. If anyone hasnt figured out the message from the new UA management it is "your repeat business is worthless to us, because you were going to give it to us anyway". "The new customer is who we want and are willing to sell our premium cabin to them for less then checked baggage fees." This basically destroys million miler benefits as these are heavily reliant on UDU as most of us will be retired when we are leveraging million miler and UDU
Whats is shocking the stealthy way they are screwing their elites and hoping that nobody finds out. (welcome to the internet, it changes everything)
P.S. Kokonutz, was this on the CO website or the UA website that this jump the list to purchase the upgrade was offered? I am guessing this was the CO website as it seems far beyond what united.com could offer
P.P.S UA Insider, would be good to know the policy on this, so we can decide what do with our future business
TOD= Tens of Dollar upgrades offered to GM while Platinum Elites sit in coach.
UA never did anything remote like this. F Buy-ups are expensive and only offered when NF>0.
This merger sucks!
Dec 26, 2011, 11:28 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SJC/SFO
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 1,017
Dec 26, 2011, 11:59 pm
#66
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Programs: RVT 1K
Posts: 883
Now I do not feel so bad about not making 1K for 2012 for the first time in years...oddly my new job kept me behind the wheel all year but making 3x what I use to...I can now realistically buy cheap biz fares on Thai or ANA or some other carrier, will never buy it on UA, it was only ever worth paying for W and upgrading.
If I am going to buy C it is going to be on an Asian carrier.
If I am going to buy C it is going to be on an Asian carrier.
Dec 27, 2011, 12:08 am
#67
Formerly known as CollegeFlyer
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: JRA
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA PLT, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 6,716
https://www.ana.co.jp/int/svc/w_en/c...ess_staggered/ ^
Thai's business class (slanted flat) seems less impressive but I am willing to give it a try. Particularly because Thai does not share revenue with UA...if I am going to book on another carrier because of UA's disgusting shenanigans, then ideally I do not want a penny of my money getting back to Jeff & Co's grubby hands.
UA's C product is good also, and I am currently in Taiwan after having bought a D fare (upgraded to F) on UA...but reading about these $500 int'l C upsells, offered to GMs while 1Ks who paid $1000 or more extra for W fares are waitlisted for SWUs, is a total slap in the face and makes me want to take my business elsewhere.
DL is now offering a decent flat-bed product on their 777s as well (and not 8 across either...hmm, I seem to be saying that a lot lately when looking at non-UA seat maps!).
Dec 27, 2011, 12:17 am
#68
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Continental's explanation in the past was that buy up will be offered only in circumstances where there are enough first class seats to clear all elites on the waitlist.
If OP is correct in that the last 2 seats were offered for buy up with elites like him still on the list then something is amiss and needs to be sent up the line.
If OP is correct in that the last 2 seats were offered for buy up with elites like him still on the list then something is amiss and needs to be sent up the line.
Dec 27, 2011, 12:28 am
#69
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,826
Dec 27, 2011, 1:14 am
#70
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
UACO is really missing the forest for the trees on this one. ... It also really is a slap in the face when an upgrade is sold to someone on an otherwise non-upgradable fare while elites wait for an upgrade on a fare they paid more for.
I've said it before. UACO can't have it both ways.
I've said it before. UACO can't have it both ways.
Last edited by gengar; Dec 27, 2011 at 1:20 am
Dec 27, 2011, 1:34 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
I agree that the whole practice sucks!
Dec 27, 2011, 6:34 am
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
Yes, this is 100% the policy on international flights.
I had paid an extra ~$700 for a W fare vs. an L fare that my companion paid for the same flights IAD-LHR-IAD. I was on the w/l LHR-IAD. Watched as the seats in C dwindled. At 24 hours went to check in for myself and my GM companion. My companion was offered a buy-up for LESS than the difference between an L fare and a W fare. I was so that I called UA to complain. The lady said I could get off the w/l and see if I got the same offer, but if I did not get that offer and went back on the w/l I would end up losing my place in line on the PA1 wait list.
That made me so angry that I told her to cancel my return ticket and booked a one-way award in F at a saver mileage rate.
That was the day I decided that I am willing to give up 1k status and instead pay Z or A fares for flights on whoever has the cheapest Z or A fare....because if I am going to be paying more, I actually want better class of service for that premium, not a dwindling chance at it while others buy it at check-in for less than my W fare difference on an offer that is not even made to me.
PA1 is now the WORST place to be at 24 hours before the flight: GMs will get buy-up offers that you won't see while you linger on the W/L. It's a sick joke of a policy.
I had paid an extra ~$700 for a W fare vs. an L fare that my companion paid for the same flights IAD-LHR-IAD. I was on the w/l LHR-IAD. Watched as the seats in C dwindled. At 24 hours went to check in for myself and my GM companion. My companion was offered a buy-up for LESS than the difference between an L fare and a W fare. I was so
that I called UA to complain. The lady said I could get off the w/l and see if I got the same offer, but if I did not get that offer and went back on the w/l I would end up losing my place in line on the PA1 wait list.That made me so angry that I told her to cancel my return ticket and booked a one-way award in F at a saver mileage rate.
That was the day I decided that I am willing to give up 1k status and instead pay Z or A fares for flights on whoever has the cheapest Z or A fare....because if I am going to be paying more, I actually want better class of service for that premium, not a dwindling chance at it while others buy it at check-in for less than my W fare difference on an offer that is not even made to me.
PA1 is now the WORST place to be at 24 hours before the flight: GMs will get buy-up offers that you won't see while you linger on the W/L. It's a sick joke of a policy.
Just Wow. This scheme is unbelievable.
I had just decided to stick with UA for one more year, but this is [horsefeathers] !
Booked a flight for next month on Delta...guess I have to look harder at AA also now.
What a bunch of crap. Looks like only $ UA gets from me now is when NC is available at booking.
Wonder if UA Insider has the guts to address this bit of enhancement?
Anyone else having trouble buying the market drivel...
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Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Dec 27, 2011 at 7:26 am Reason: watch your language, please http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q88
Dec 27, 2011, 6:53 am
#73
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
Dec 27, 2011, 7:01 am
#74
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PIT
Programs: OZ Diamond, UA Gold
Posts: 9,924
Exactly, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Its great we have Scott and Shannon, some forums don't have as good lurkers. If you've got a complaint, fine, PM them about it, but don't do it in such a way that they won't want to help us when we actually need it.
Dec 27, 2011, 7:16 am
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
My theory (and it's only my theory) is that CO did it that way to 'hide' the offers from elites on the UG list, so that they would not even realize that they were losing upgrades to GMs who were getting upgrade for cash offers. Because they would get very upset to realize that CO was selling 'their' upgrades.
My only evidence for this theory is that many legacy CO elites swear to this day that such offers never happen, or if they do it is rare and expensive.
Neither of these notions are correct.
Anyway, the cat's out of the bag.
They should make the same offers to those on the wait list as those not.
My only evidence for this theory is that many legacy CO elites swear to this day that such offers never happen, or if they do it is rare and expensive.
Neither of these notions are correct.
Anyway, the cat's out of the bag.
They should make the same offers to those on the wait list as those not.
UACO is really missing the forest for the trees on this one. It's fine for UACO to make a grab for cash at the last minute but there is a cost to doing so. If the cash price for an upgrade at the last minute is low enough it results in the elite program being seriously degraded. It also really is a slap in the face when an upgrade is sold to someone on an otherwise non-upgradable fare while elites wait for an upgrade on a fare they paid more for.
I've said it before. UACO can't have it both ways.
I've said it before. UACO can't have it both ways.
AFAIC, UA really screwed the pooch on this one, so to speak. I have no doubt that Koko is correct: UA didn't want elites to realize that they are losing upgrades to non-elites and/or feel like they were being forced to pay for something that they thought they were entitled to. PHL's point about the unstated costs to UA is a good one; I have no idea why they thought the cat wouldn't get out of the bag on this one. True, not everyone is a FTer, but most people will eventually read a travel article that puts this little scheme out there. My belief is that this whole interweb thing is going to catch on.
One thing: I have absolutely no problem with UA (or any airline) trying to make money by selling upgrades. I don't view the airlines as public utilities. What roils me is that the company has created an uneven playing field to the detriment of its more loyal customers.
Mike