I've concluded that they actually have been trying to improve generally (ok so maybe I'm crazy), but they have a long way to go before ever approaching anything along the likes of LH, SQ, NH, BA, GF, EK, EY, TK, TG, et al. US-flagged carriers just cannot match in terms of soft product, and in some cases hard.

You're right it was only Part One.

Why would he plunk down an additional $7K? His first class ticket on UA was fully refundable, he paid the same amount on the LH flight. And the seats on UA even the new ones in FC are not up to international standards.

Personally, I'm not sure FC is a viable product going forward for a mass carrier. It seems to be most successful on carriers based in the Middle East, and to a shrinking degree Asia. Even in Asia, the push for it is becoming questionable. Korean is considering dropping it. The stakes keep going higher and higher, it takes serious commitment to the product and a strong confidence you'll sell it to try to keep up with the Jones (or the Emirates in this case). But what do I know, people always amaze me at what they will pay for something, even today, when you'd think value for you money is so important.

Is there a reason none of the middle eastern airlines are joining an alliance, except Saudi Arabian adn MEA which are joining SkyTeam (hardly the cream of the crop).

And that's great if you luck out and get a flight on a CO metal 777.

I had a paid C ticket LHR-IAD in March of this year, so thought I would splash out 20k miles for an upgrade to F on the newly configured 777. Was gobsmacked to find that my pre-departure champers was handed to me in a plastic flute! Gee-whiz, even NW served the bubbly in a glass flute. This is international first class??? UA, I love ya, but you really have a long way to go.

The CO 752s have the same. And my understanding is that the new UA system is comparable, though Y pax have to buy the additional content. The company is deploying the new system across all long-haul aircraft. Sure, it takes some time to do so. Probably longer than any of us would want, though it isn't wholly unreasonable that they cannot just do it all overnight or even in a month.

Still, the claims that COUA are so far behind are, at best, only partially true. The one specific claim comparing to KLM is so full of misleading information that it is ridiculous.

+1. I've also never had a hamburger in First Class on any airline.

Full disclosure...the special entree on my LX F flight last week was...a bratwurst! Purser highly recommended it - and it was delicious.

Maybe they were inspired by CO's glorious hamburger offerings... :D

You're really missing out. I assume you only drink 1999 Dom at home too?

Before I wrote I took a look on CO.com it says this about the 777-200:
Our 777 aircraft feature Audio Video On Demand entertainment systems in BusinessFirst and Economy. You can start, stop, pause or rewind your movies and music. The new BusinessFirst in-flight entertainment system features a choice of more than 150 movies, 250 television shows, 3,000 songs, 20 interactive video games and the Berlitz Word Traveller Program, which allows you to learn languages in more than 20 languages. The system also provides a juke box feature that will allow you to make your own song list. BusinessFirst features a 15.4” screen with touch-screen or handset controls. The screen in Economy measures 9in. and also features touch-screen or handset controls.

And this about the 757-200:

Our 757 aircraft are equipped with Audio Video On Demand entertainment systems in BusinessFirst and Economy. You can start, stop, pause, rewind or fast forward any time. The system features up to 40 feature films, 60 television shows, over 2,000 tracks of music, 20 interactive video games, and the Berlitz Word Traveller Program, which allows you to learn languages in more than 20 languages. BusinessFirst features a 15.4in screen with touch-screen or handset controls. The screen in Economy measures 9in. and also features touch-screen controls.


I read these as different. Or is Continental finally wrong about something?

My claims about KLM are not so misleading as to be ridiculous. For starters, we were talking about INTERNATIONAL FIRST CLASS, where I would hope you would agree there is a higher expectation than there is for Business Class? You need more than entertainment? How about not being rationed nuts to one tiny package with my cocktail? KLM serves a nice serving of warm mixed nuts, including macadamias, and no peanuts, and will give me as many servings as I want. I made the mistake of asking for a second serving on CO ONCE, I thought I was going to be slapped. Again in Business Class. How about the quality and assortment of wine selection? I won't get into meal quality, because it's such a personal preference, but, I've had some honest-to-God restaurant quality meals on KLM (I've had a couple on CO too, but not for a long time). KLM's seat sucks, I'll give you that, there's a trade off, but what is ridiculous is such vehement defense of an inferior product that needs to be competitive.

My claim stands. UA has a LONG way to go, to match the international standards of long haul first class product. So does Continental who was always way overly proud of their BF product even before the lie flat seats, and the 150+ movie entertainment system...on the hold message CO would routinely compare it to "International First Class, for the price of Business Class".

At least most of CO's metal has lie flats now in Business Class, but UA's international fleet is far from complete in this regard.

PMUA craft have a decent selection of movies/TV, but after 2 TPACs in a month I tend to have gone through all I'm interested in. July options now include "Bullitt", "The French Connection", "Dirty Dozen" and another 40 year old movie who's name eludes me at the moment. Seems they're adding content on the cheap.

What bothers me is not the repetition or the entertainment on the cheap but the chopping/editing of said movies to ensure nobody might be the slightest disturbed at the content. :rolleyes: I'd prefer to watch a full movie on a crappy small screen on TG than a hacked movie on a large UA screen.

It is my understanding that the 752 were upgraded to the same storage system as the 772s at one point so that they have the same media collections now.

Certainly the part about having hundreds of movies is.

Precisely. There is a trade-off. And no one here is claiming that the COUA product is the best out there. Actually, I don't think too many folks are defending the UA F product at all. But the new C product is absolutely competitive in the international market in an overall basis. The seats are pretty good. The AVOD is pretty good. The food is pretty good. The lounges and the wines are lacking.

But to suggest that the new C products are wholly inferior are unrealistic IMO. Not the best, but hardly the worst out there. They're actually pretty competitive in many areas.

If that's your understanding fine, if it's factual, then CO had better update it's web site information.

We weren't talking about C, were were talking about F.

I brought in KLM's entertainment choices, because up until the new system that is still currently on a limited number of planes, KLM had more than UACO in their business class product than United did in it's First Class product.

That was the point, that one airlines BUSINESS product bested another airlines FIRST product in ONE area. Since you thought it ridiculous to compare only one area I cited a few others. Some relating to what CO "sells" as First Class, and some to UA's First and Business.

I never said hundreds, you did. I said 2-3 times, which is VERY accurate to UACO product except the newly upgraded CO 777-200. 80+ is 2 times what CO has on the 757, which according to CO.com is 40...or is my math wrong? Further I don't think UA has more than 40 movies on AVOD as of yet, and doesn't even have AVOD on most of their international fleet. At least from what I can make out from their confusing site. I see they even still offer personal video tapes on some international flights in FIRST CLASS???? Didn't that go out in the 90's for most carriers? Yeah, far from the best.

Pretty much every one in Europe does, IIRC.

What are you talking about? The UA Intl F experience has been exactly as described above prior to the merger. This isn't an issue that can be blamed on Mr Smisek as much as everyone here loves to attack him.

Right up until post 4 where the discussion expanded. And I think I've been pretty clear in what I was describing in each of my posts.

Fair enough. Forgive me for doing the math and finding that it doesn't always hold up.

I'm certainly not defending UA F. Never have.

The F suites are really nice... the OP is right that the UA product is stale, and CO is late to the game with their product. UA's product through 2001 was solid... It just went downhill after 9/11 and BK. I, however, personally consumed a few bottles of DOM before the degradation :cool:

Also, I have always considered top foreign carriers to have a better C/F product.