The "check-in" about face
Jul 12, 2011, 12:55 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
I've also had mostly good luck and service when I have to pick up the chicken phone.
Jul 12, 2011, 12:58 pm
#17
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
You said you told him twice you were elite and he didn't care. Your service had nothing to do with you being an elite or not an elite, you received lousy service because you had a lousy agent.
You only got decent service once you had another agent, and probably the only reason he started treating you better was because he knew she was probably going to chew his head off.
He was sucking up to you because he knew you knew he should not have treated you that way, once another employee became involved and treated you the way you should have been treated.
You only got decent service once you had another agent, and probably the only reason he started treating you better was because he knew she was probably going to chew his head off.
He was sucking up to you because he knew you knew he should not have treated you that way, once another employee became involved and treated you the way you should have been treated.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:07 pm
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
There is what I see as a rather strange attitude in the FT UA community that seems to suggest that getting good service can only truly happen if others are getting much worse service than you are. That without a significant difference in the level of service there is nothing special about elite status. I just don't get it, but apparently it is just me because lots of other folks here rally behind that flag every day.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:13 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AA EXP, HH Diamond, MR Gold, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,252
+1. Whenever I'm faced with IRROPS I will always try calling reservations first. Since I called the 1P line and entered my MP number, they already know I'm elite. Plus, as pinworm said, it's generally faster.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:22 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Taking care of your best customers is a noble goal. Treating everyone else like crap is the problem. Yes, elites should receive priority for standby lists and confirmation on the next available flight and such. But that doesn't mean that you have to make the other customers feel worthless.
Things like hotel rooms, forcing people on flights, being more liberal with OAL reroutes if necessary, and so on. It's really more of a mindset than it is a procedure. UA does a good job with that (as does DL, IME).
There is what I see as a rather strange attitude in the FT UA community that seems to suggest that getting good service can only truly happen if others are getting much worse service than you are. That without a significant difference in the level of service there is nothing special about elite status. I just don't get it, but apparently it is just me because lots of other folks here rally behind that flag every day.
I think UA FTers may value their status not because of how others are treated, but because it has paid off in situations. When employees have status on their radar, they'll be more likely to bend the rule or spend the extra initiative to make the phone call to force you over on a plane to make sure you get home that night, or whatever the circumstance may be.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:22 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Up in the air far too often.
Programs: Star Gold
Posts: 354
Your experience corroborates what I have seen mentioned before on these boards: If you're elite (especially an upper-level elite) on UA they will take care of you, but woe be it to you should you lack status. May well explain UA's high (low?) placing in the "most hated" rankings. Heck, I have no complaints so far with UA, but I have that most coveted 1K status...
By the way, I think my original post makes me sound angrier than I was. I was annoyed by the "about-face" more than anything else, and was quite pleased with the eventual outcome of the situation.
If the elite line has people in it waiting checking in, often I will use the regular line if I don't need service and it is quicker... I sometimes have had to ask for a priority tag if I think it will help me -- they look down, then pull out the priority tag and smile.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:25 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,224
I'm now used to the strange look I get when I admit to flying UA - the look which asks why in the world would you do that?
I often find I go one way with a friend but return on different days, or vice-versa. What I hear of what happens when I'm not accompanying my friends makes me shudder. When I fill out ualsurvey and I'm asked whether I would recommend UA to anyone else, the answer has to be NO.
I have no issue with the way I'm treated but I simply cannot understand why they have to treat GM customers so badly - sometimes it almost seems as if GM customers are considered to be in the way of the smooth working of the day.
I often find I go one way with a friend but return on different days, or vice-versa. What I hear of what happens when I'm not accompanying my friends makes me shudder. When I fill out ualsurvey and I'm asked whether I would recommend UA to anyone else, the answer has to be NO.
I have no issue with the way I'm treated but I simply cannot understand why they have to treat GM customers so badly - sometimes it almost seems as if GM customers are considered to be in the way of the smooth working of the day.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:29 pm
#23
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: RNO
Posts: 375
Taking care of your best customers is a noble goal. Treating everyone else like crap is the problem. Yes, elites should receive priority for standby lists and confirmation on the next available flight and such. But that doesn't mean that you have to make the other customers feel worthless.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:36 pm
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Up in the air far too often.
Programs: Star Gold
Posts: 354
You said you told him twice you were elite and he didn't care. Your service had nothing to do with you being an elite or not an elite, you received lousy service because you had a lousy agent.
You only got decent service once you had another agent, and probably the only reason he started treating you better was because he knew she was probably going to chew his head off.
He was sucking up to you because he knew you knew he should not have treated you that way, once another employee became involved and treated you the way you should have been treated.
You only got decent service once you had another agent, and probably the only reason he started treating you better was because he knew she was probably going to chew his head off.
He was sucking up to you because he knew you knew he should not have treated you that way, once another employee became involved and treated you the way you should have been treated.
You may be right though, perhaps he was trying to specifically target me for some odd reason and did this deliberately, and tried to make up for it. He did kind of act startled, like my employees when I walk in the back room and I can tell they were playing minesweeper (or chatting on FT?)
+1, this was the main point of the complaint. Making me feel worthless and being actively discouraging was rude, unnecessary, and didn't help United elites at all. In fact, it offended me, a United "elite."
Moreover, it should be common sense that a well dressed traveler on business (and IMO everybody!) should be treated with a good deal of respect. If I switch home airport due to moving for a job, etc., I may rapidly become elite on SkyTeam. It is best not to be an ..., especially if it does not cost you anything.
Jul 12, 2011, 1:47 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Up in the air far too often.
Programs: Star Gold
Posts: 354
As a 1K I feel UA treats me like a company should treat a customer, but nothing special really. IMO, UA treats non-status customers like dirt. If I need to approach a random UA ground employee, I nearly always make my status known. They often won't even listen to the question if I don't, much less attempt to help.
I'd venture to guess that this might be a cultural thing that is rubbed onto employees... see that other thread on the kitschy red carpet and the pseudo-worship of the "best customers." This is all fine, but if I were in management I would hammer into employees that young professional = next generation elite member and potential years of loyalty. Families and the elderly should similarly be respected, professionalism doesn't cost anything.
Jul 12, 2011, 2:35 pm
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
I always thought some of the stories here were ridiculous about people waving their 1k cards, etc. But now I see why...
A couple weeks ago I was trying to get rebooked for IRROPS and the gate agent was being a total a-hole. I was polite, as always, but he kept on saying (at 4PM in a major hub with 4 more flights) stuff like "there is NO WAY you are getting out tonight" and a general unfriendly attitude, definitely bordering on hostility. I mentioned TWICE that I was premier executive, and it was on my boarding pass (also in computer???) I didn't mention it a third time, because, well, I assumed everybody else trying to get on the flight might be 1k in a hub to major airport segment.
The guy prints me some standby tickets and I was about to go to the gate where the next flight was... I was really, really dissatisfied with his attitude and service, and I also noticed my FF number was not anywhere. He had taken the next customer, but there was a lady standing next to him, who had not taken another customer yet.
I leaned over and pulled out my PremEx card for the FF number, and said "oh, can you also ensure my FF number is here."
She looks at it and says, "Oh, you are Premier?? You really should tell us that because it really helps in these kinds of situations."
*(*#(@*!?!??? I told him TWICE! I don't mumble.
She starts doing something and when the original guy was done with his next customer, he also helps out.
"Magically" I get on the next flight, in E+, and have confirmed window seat, and I get to my destination ok. Suddenly the original guy is all polite now too, calling me "sir" and smiling a bit.
Although this works out for me, this really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. "Polite" to elite customers and disparaging / rude to normal customers?? I look young, but I'm not that young... dressed in a jacket and tie... reservations made by American Express Business travel... very weird.
Even after I said several times I'm elite, and just assumed that they would look at the PREMIER on the BP or check the FF#?
These guys need a re-visit to customer service 101. This is not a culture I appreciate, even if I benefit from it.
A couple weeks ago I was trying to get rebooked for IRROPS and the gate agent was being a total a-hole. I was polite, as always, but he kept on saying (at 4PM in a major hub with 4 more flights) stuff like "there is NO WAY you are getting out tonight" and a general unfriendly attitude, definitely bordering on hostility. I mentioned TWICE that I was premier executive, and it was on my boarding pass (also in computer???) I didn't mention it a third time, because, well, I assumed everybody else trying to get on the flight might be 1k in a hub to major airport segment.
The guy prints me some standby tickets and I was about to go to the gate where the next flight was... I was really, really dissatisfied with his attitude and service, and I also noticed my FF number was not anywhere. He had taken the next customer, but there was a lady standing next to him, who had not taken another customer yet.
I leaned over and pulled out my PremEx card for the FF number, and said "oh, can you also ensure my FF number is here."
She looks at it and says, "Oh, you are Premier?? You really should tell us that because it really helps in these kinds of situations."
*(*#(@*!?!??? I told him TWICE! I don't mumble.
She starts doing something and when the original guy was done with his next customer, he also helps out.
"Magically" I get on the next flight, in E+, and have confirmed window seat, and I get to my destination ok. Suddenly the original guy is all polite now too, calling me "sir" and smiling a bit.
Although this works out for me, this really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. "Polite" to elite customers and disparaging / rude to normal customers?? I look young, but I'm not that young... dressed in a jacket and tie... reservations made by American Express Business travel... very weird.
Even after I said several times I'm elite, and just assumed that they would look at the PREMIER on the BP or check the FF#?
These guys need a re-visit to customer service 101. This is not a culture I appreciate, even if I benefit from it.
Jul 12, 2011, 2:43 pm
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
As a 1K I feel UA treats me like a company should treat a customer, but nothing special really. IMO, UA treats non-status customers like dirt. If I need to approach a random UA ground employee, I nearly always make my status known. They often won't even listen to the question if I don't, much less attempt to help.
I think UA FTers may value their status not because of how others are treated, but because it has paid off in situations. When employees have status on their radar, they'll be more likely to bend the rule or spend the extra initiative to make the phone call to force you over on a plane to make sure you get home that night, or whatever the circumstance may be.
Jul 12, 2011, 2:46 pm
#28
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,136
Reminds me of a recent check-in experience where I wanted to get on standby (or do SDC) for an earlier flight (which had been delayed ~1.5 hours from its original departure). The agent just kept repeating, "Yours is still on time; you'll be fine."
And I kept responding, "Every flight to SFO has gone out at least 1 hour late today [thanks, SFO ATC], and if mine ends up being delayed that much, I'll misconnect in SFO." I just couldn't figure out why the guy didn't want to put me on standby, and even tried pointing out that if I misconnected, the remaining SFO-IAD flights were all oversold.
Finally, he said, "Well, that will be $50, if you insist."
I realized then he'd paid no attention to my reservation or BPs and that I was 1K, and assumed because my flight wasn't delayed (yet), I wouldn't want to spend $$ on it.
"I'm 1K," I interrupted, and he said, "Oh," and finally put me on standby.
And I kept responding, "Every flight to SFO has gone out at least 1 hour late today [thanks, SFO ATC
], and if mine ends up being delayed that much, I'll misconnect in SFO." I just couldn't figure out why the guy didn't want to put me on standby, and even tried pointing out that if I misconnected, the remaining SFO-IAD flights were all oversold.Finally, he said, "Well, that will be $50, if you insist."
I realized then he'd paid no attention to my reservation or BPs and that I was 1K, and assumed because my flight wasn't delayed (yet), I wouldn't want to spend $$ on it.
"I'm 1K," I interrupted, and he said, "Oh," and finally put me on standby.
Jul 12, 2011, 2:54 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,893
There is what I see as a rather strange attitude in the FT UA community that seems to suggest that getting good service can only truly happen if others are getting much worse service than you are. That without a significant difference in the level of service there is nothing special about elite status. I just don't get it, but apparently it is just me because lots of other folks here rally behind that flag every day.
Personally, I think that it's awesome that I can choose to fly on an airline which rewards its most frequent flyers with an awesome level of service. I felt that the kind of service I got as a 1K on UA in 2010 was "much better" than I would get when flying as a general member on DL, AS, VX, US, F9, WN, FL, B6, CO, or UA, to name a few I've experienced frequently.
For me, upgrades on domestic and international flights, ultra-flexible award travel, and fast and easy access to phone agents for help in irrops and lightning-fast ticketing, are all "much better" than I've gotten as a general member -- really amazing perks.
Does that mean that others are getting "much worse" service? By symmetry, it kind of has to. Am I OK with that on my preferred carrier? Only if the baseline level is good enough. Sometimes I like to travel with folks I know, or to book trips for them. It wouldn't make sense to be loyal to a carrier who treats my friends and family poorly!
More often than not, when I've been able to help out friends in a scrape, it's not because I have any privileged access as a 1K, but because I've learned useful tips and tricks on FlyerTalk about whom to ask and what to ask for. It does sometimes seem like the carrier requires an owner's manual (using ITA yourself to research unusual irrops options; checking loads; OLCI at T-24 for tricky upgrades). But I'm OK with that because (1) at least there are rules that people try to consistently follow and I can understand what they're doing; and (2) even someone who's completely ignorant of the rules but empathetic and proactive will usually do OK.
I think this kind of attitude is pretty common and is why you'll see so many sympathetic, helpful, and productive responses on FlyerTalk when people report things going wrong with UA travel.
Jul 12, 2011, 3:21 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Yes. Again, this is built into the systems and culture, and many times an airline is faced with a situation of limited inventory or availability, or a situation that costs them money to handle.
If everything ORD-SFO is zeroed out, and there are a ton of misconnects, you can't realistically reaccommodate everyone on an already full flight.
But you can force the remaining flights over for a subset of your customers. It sucks for the non-Elite who won't get home tonight (or maybe they can if they go on standby and luck out), but it's not realistic to be able to accommodate all customers in the same manner in a limited space situation.
Same with hotels -- in a massive weather breakdown, there are only so many hotel rooms. How do you prioritize that? Metering them out by status is a perfect way to manage the limited resource.
Unfortunately with air travel these days you're going to run into this limited availability situation every now and then. Nobody is running at 60% load factors where reaccommodation is easy. Flights are at 85%, often more on peak days and times, and rationing the best solutions to customers should be the norm. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on which side you're on), this can have a major impact to the outcome of the situation.
There's a big difference than an ordinary situation and a situation where discretion and moving mountains can be useful.