zipadee

Hello.

I am staying five nights, four complete touring days in London in early August at a hotel near Victoria Station. It is my first time there and my first time in Europe. (btw, are there much flight delays in August in Europe due to weather like say there are in Chicago or Dallas? I'd think not but figure never hurts to ask).

I am completely overwhelmed in trying to plan (which is amazing to me because I can plan an extraordinary Disney World trip in three days or less).

I'd love suggestions on a couple of solid travel books on London plus the best travel book on rail/tube transportation in London. That part so confuses me. Do I need Oyster Card, do I need this card, that card, what, what compartment, traveling with luggage from/to airport etc? I'd love a book or some web site to help simplify it for me.

Also, I'm trying to plan my trip out and buy my Buckingham Palace tickets in advance. But I cannot figure out when is the best time of day to buy my tickets. I had planned on doing Buckingham Palace and Westminster Abbey in the same day but am beginning to question the wisdom of that and should I do Buckingham in the morning or afternoon?


I'm also beginning to wonder what is doable and what isn't based on the times and would love your thoughts and suggestions on how I can squeeze in my five must dos. Westminster Abbey with the verger tour (verger tour is 90 minutes but how much should I allow for the abbey itself and do it before or after? And is it better to do Abbey first thing in the morning when it opens or do a 2:30 p.m. verger tour on a Wednesday and then tour the abbey after that until the 6 p.m. closing?). Could I do Tower of London in the morning and the abbey in the afternoon? How far is it to get from one to the other?

Westminster, Tower of London, Buckingham Palace (don't have to do changing of guard), Windsor Castle (would like to do changing of guard at 11 a.m.), Hampton Court Palace and Hever Castle are my must dos. If time allows, would like to do Kensington Palace. Is Hever Castle an all-day thing due to the travel time or is it possible to do something in the morning or then Hever in the afternoon? Can you do Winsdor in the morning then Hampton in the afternoon or does travel time preclude you from enjoying Hampton sufficiently? And if Hampton Court Palace should be an all-day thing then what should I pair Windsor Castle up with? Windsor in the morning and Buckingham Palace in the afternoon?

And is Windsor Castle in August a changing of guard on even days or odd days traditionally? Should I do just the state apartments at Buckingham Palace or the whole royal day out shebang?

I know I have a ton of questions so let me say from the bottom of my heart thank you for any assistance and guidance you can suggest. This is an amazing trip for me. I've always loved English history, obviously particularly Tudor history, and I'm so excited about seeing these things but trying to figure out the best plan for doing so.

Wingnut

So many questions! Let me take a stab at a few of them, I'm sure others will be along soon:

Flight delays in August - very unlikely due to weather. However there can often be strikes which can cause delays during the holiday season. Don't worry about it yet, though.

Travel guides - tricky for a resident. I'd imagine that Time Out's London guide is quite good, though.

Oyster card - do try searching for oyster in this forum as there are lengthy threads about the best way to go about this.

Travel to and from airport - again, there's a detailed transfer thread in the forum, and you don't mention which airport you're flying into. If it's LGW it's easy to Victoria - just take the train (the regular service is cheaper than the express and only takes a few extra minutes). If it's LHR it depends how much baggage and where exactly your hotel is. Piccadilly line to Hyde Park corner should get you close, then a cab if it's a long walk / raining / lots of bags.

Tower of London to Westminster Abbey - I can't help you with how much time you need to spend in each, but the journey between them isn't long. A handy website for judging length of time on public transport between London destinations may be found here.

Dr Groggy

If you are keen to experience another Tudor site then perhaps you should contemplate a visit to Knole and its deer park (like Hever, also in Kent). You can get to Knole by train to Sevenoaks and a 5 min taxi ride (it's adjacent to the town).

If you plan carefully you may be able to squeeze Hever and Knole on the same day - train connections Sevenoaks to Edenbridge take half an hour (and run every half an hour on weekdays). Taxis are not always waiting at Edenbridge station so perhaps you should look at prebooking a ride with a local cab firm.

Akulashark

I am in London one week per month on business, not leisure, but I can give some advice (or atleast echo some).

Transit, the trains can get you everywhere and since you are at victoria you have access to several lines and rapid transfers. Get an Oyster card, it is the cheapest and fastest method of getting into and out of the Tube.

Sites, what do you want to see? Buckingham Palace? London Eye? Tower Bridge? The Malls?
It really depends, but basically you will be walking and tubing a bit.

Maps, the tube map is a must and are available at every station. London A-Z is often carried by Londoners.

wsflyer

Okay, breathe deep--you can do this.

You are asking the right questions. London is not Disney World. (I happen to love both, but they are obviously different.) Unlike trying to hit all the attractions at Disney, you will have to skip most in London. Unfortunately, 4 days is not enough time to do London justice, especially if you intend to take several side trips.

Look at www.thetube.com which sends you to the official page for London transit. I found the tube quite easy to negotiate.

Remember that English rail is disjointed--several main stations in London and several different companies operating the lines. It is confusing.

I used Rick Steves' London book and found it helpful for a first visit. You should probably visit a book store and try out several guides to determine which suits your needs.

You seem to have your must-dos set, but for a history buff, I would highly recommend the British Museum and the British Library (Magna Carta, etc.).

Personally, I wouldn't worry about waiting for the changing of the guards.

Good luck.

zipadee

Deep breath!

Shew. Ok, thanks so much for all the thoughts ya'll have shared.

We are flying into LHR and back to the States from LGW. One more transportation question to the person who suggested getting the Oyster card....I have read through some of the threads but was unsure if these zone cards I had read about was a better thing since we're doing side trips. And thanks for saying the tube can look confusing when you are looking at web sites from the States. Glad it's not just me. Hoping kind of like Disney's transportation it will make better sense once I get there.

I dearly wanted more time in London and that had been the plan but my husband got a new job, which meant he could only take two weeks off from work, and since the original reason we were going to Europe is for the wedding in Poland.....well it's not the time I had wanted for London but it's better than nothing eh and most people had suggested foregoing it altogether since we were going to be in Germany and Poland. Obviously I didn't listen

We are definitely doing the British Museum. I didn't mention it because it's open late a couple of nights while we are there so I had planned on doing it the two nights it's open late, thus not conflicting with doing the stuff that's only open during the day. I'll check into the British Library, thanks for the suggestion.

Ok, so sounds like I can do the Abbey and Tower of London in the same day. Can I do Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace in the same day and which should be the morning and which should be the afternoon?


Again, thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions and ideas.

krug

Sounds a fun trip! It will be warm in August; check your hotel has air conditioning; even if you are from a hot place, London gets HOT because it is not geared for warm weather.

Save money by buying lunch and bottles of water away from tourist places eg at Boots or Marks & Spencer foodstores, which can be found throughout the city. There is an M&S in Victoria Station.

There should be no weather related delays in August, but do watch out for the Eco-Loons who will be picketing Heathrow in 14-21 August. There is also a big investment programme for the Tube right now which could affect your weekend plans.

DO be prepared for the one item of hand baggage and 100ml or less liquid containers inside a clear plastic bag on departure. They mean one piece, including handbag, laptop etc. One piece only.

I think the best book would be the Time Out London Guide which you can order online; I use these guides all over Europe and they are excellent.

There is really no need to travel first class on British Trains - ask for "standard class" and you'll be fine. It would help to know which airport you are flying into; but there is lots on here already about getting to and from the airport. In summary; Piccadilly Line tube from LHR, Gatwick Express or Southern Trains from LGW (buy tix online to avoid exhorbitant GEx ticket prices, outside rush hour I would recommend the Southern Trains option, half the price and just four minutes longer). GEx is still £26.80/$53 return if purchased online. Wow....

For the tube and getting around London generally, I would suggest using the excellent www.tfl.gov.uk website to plan your routes and printout a map - an oyster card with a day travelcard loaded on it is a good idea, if you are confident using public transport. If you can find someone who speaks English still in London in August please ASK as we are always happy to help with directions.

Black Cabs are wildly expensive, but don't rule them out as you have a lot of walking, and from a time saving perspective they can be just the treat required - you should certainly try one out, but make sure you get in one of the newer looking ones as they are much nicer than the older variety!

Buckingham Palace and Westminster Abbey are doable together in one day, they are quite close on foot, but it's a lot of walking around Buckingham Palace and you might need a rest, or to do something different to avoid touristic overload.

DAY ONE

Deffo do Buck Palace first thing to avoid the queues. I did it last year, and allow 2-3 hours perhaps more if you want to do the Royal Mews Gallery too. State Apartments are enough, though. Excellent gift shop. Victoria is right next to the Palace so you can pop back to your hotel with your purchases.

Then I would recommend a trundle round Harrods, and then Afternoon Tea - I have been going to the Chinoiserie at Carlton Tower for twenty years, it's away from the crowds and I believe the best Tea in London, though little known.

You would then be ready to take on a show in Covent Garden/Soho, probably by a short bus or tube rideand I would recommend Avenue Q as just about the funniest musical I have ever seen. Cheap tix can be purchased same day in the stone booth to the south of the garden in Leicester ("Lester") Square.

DAY TWO

Straight to bed after that, and then early the next day for Westminster Abbey for some ancient history, and then a five minute walk to contrast that in the afternoon with The Cabinet War Rooms and Churchill Museum. Unmissable for a flavour of wartime London. Check out Number 10 Downing Street nearby as well, and maybe a trip on the London Eye after that as the evening closes. Avoid midday rides as it's like a greenhouse in there during sunny days.

DAY THREE

Tower of London is a way from all the above (other side of town, but 25 mins by tube from Victoria direct on District line to Tower Hill). Again avoid the crowds and get a better look at the Crown Jewels by arriving first thing, allow four hours for the Tower.

I recently spent the weekend showing around a visiting Australian friend in my own city.

Used the www.londonpass.com, but preferred to use the regular travelcard using https://sales.oystercard.com/oyster/lul/entry.do than the official tour bus, which I felt would have taken up too much time waiting for, esp with all the stops.

I started at Tower Hill tube for the Tower of London for the Crown Jewels, walked across Tower Bridge (inside, on the upper part with a great view of London), then an early lunch at Butler's Wharf overlooking the Bridge.

Then a bus to Tate Modern, checked out the Tour of Shakespear's Globe. Across the infamous "wobbly" Millennium Bridge to St. Paul's Cathedral, where Diana was married. You can climb almost to the top of the Dome.

The views were amazing, and the Whispering Gallery (inside the dome, sit on opposing sides and whisper into the wall and you can hear the person on the other side, several hundred feet away, perfectly) was a great hit.

Back across the wobbly bridge to the Tate to Tate boat, to the other Tate Britain in Millbank - Constable exhibit worth a look.

Bus past Houses of Parliament, dropped off outside 10 Downing Street and then into the National Protrait Gallery - fascinating. Walked around Trafalgar Square, and sat around watching the pigeons.

DAY FOUR

The next day, went out of London in a car for a pub lunch and walk around the birthplace of English Landscape Gardening. About an hour and half drive from London - you would need a car for this -but staying in the country midweek could save you quite a bit of money, and be much cooler.

Instead, you should do Windsor Castle as a day trip by coach from Victoria. You seem to lump Windsor and Buckingham Palace together - Windsor is about an hour outside London by road and would prob be too much to do anything else significant that day (though the Brit Museum evening thing would work, with supper outdoors in Covent Garden afterwards).

Hever Castle I had never heard of (!), but again should be do-able in day. If you have to leave any of your top five out, this would be it. Kensington Palace is a great tour, and much closer to Victoria so doable in an afternoon, whereas Kent can be a shag to get to.

DAY FIVE

Never done Hampton Court myself, but do a search on here for others' experiences. I would recommend going at least one way by boat along the Thames if the weather is good.

My big concern with everyone who plans to come to London is that you are planning to cram so much in to each day; do leave a bit of "me" time to chill out, savour and enjoy your experiences - this is not quick thrills Disney and if you are tired, thirsty and your feet hurt you will not have the best experience. You can always leave something to come back to another visit!

If you plan on eating out, right between Buckingham Palace and Westminster Abbey is Inn the Park which would be great on a balmy summer's evening and close to your hotel. Booking is essential, and the earlier the better.

Again my top tip is www.londonpass.com

This is a pretty cool map site and may help you get your bearings.

So much to see and it's pretty overwhelming even as a resident, so don't be put off asking questions, but do use the search and google for websites like the ones I have linked here in the text of my response.

Hope that helps - have a great stay!

alanR

August 2005 : Gate Gourmet strike, all BA flights cancelled
August 2006 : Liquids bomb scare, short haul flights cancelled, long haul severely delayed

Weather is the least of your worries

jabrams72

In addition to the TimeOut guide, I'd recommend TimeOut Food and Drink (that is, if food matters to you).

Just put some amount of money on the Oyster card (say £30), it will automatically manage your costs to the most efficient within London and you don't need to have it planned ahead. (You can cash out a balance when you leave.

jerseyfinn

First off, you're gonna love London as it's a world class city. Keep in mind that you've also got great dining opportunities here ( at any price range ) and don't forget about the theater. Time is going to fly by quickly, so you're wise to prioritize those things you want to see the most and then just go for the rest as you're able.

Another thing to keep in mind. London is a fantastic walking city. The idea is to famaliarize yourself with the Underground and get a grasp of how you can jump around the city and then walk about to maximize your day of sightseeing. I'd strongly reccomend that you pick up a nice pocket map of London and study it so that you can gradually get a handle on where things are, and how to move between them via the Tube.

A Rick Steves or another like-styled London guide would be a good read before you fly over. But I'd leave the larger guide books home after you've read them and bring one of those Berlitz pocket guide type books as a quick reference that doesn't take up much space as with this and your pocket map, you're ready for anything.

The only negative about going to London are the adverse dollar to £ exchange rates. But we grin and bear it when we visit and I'm sure you can as well as you'll be too absorbed in the experience to realize the bite being taken out of your wallet.

Some on-line resources.

• Try Timeout London, or This is London to get a small sampling of things.
• London Transport can get you up to speed with the Underground. Be sure to check the Oyster link to see if an Oyster card might be more cost effective for you. Unless you venture to Greenwich during your stay, all of your Underground travel will be in zone one only.
• If you decide to do a night or two of theater, check out the Theater Monkey site. It's got info on what's playing, how to get to the theater, and seat maps which tell you which seats to avoid. Be aware of touts and purchase your theater tickets either from your hotel concierge, at the theater itself, or from the ticket booth located in Leicester Square which is the authorized thater ticket reseller.
• Check out London Eating to get an idea of all of the dining opportunities London has to offer. We have several favorite places to eat in London. If you like Spanish cuisine, or more specifically tapas, I highly reccomend El Pirata in Mayfair. Fantastic dining and wine. The only negative will be the cost after adding in the exchange rates, but it's a great experience.
• Here's a live camera link to Leicester Square . which is itself one of the busy gathering spots located astride Trafalgar Sq., Piccadilly, Westend, and Chinatown

If you schedule accordingly, you could do Westminster Abby and Buckingham in the same day. Peruse you guide books when you get them and see how you could do a Westminster/Big Ben/Whitehall/Trafalgar Square/St. James Park/Buckingham walk and hit all of these sights and more.

The Tower of London is a good half day visit at least ( and you'd also do the
Tower Bridge as well ). Prepurchase your Tower of London tickets at your hotel and avoid the queues when you get there.

Four Days is not very long in a place like London, but you'll fill up your days and nights with things to do. Consider a night ride on the London Eye if your days are too packed. You may or may not want to venture outside of London during your brief stay, but Windsor would make one good day trip. Then again, once you get a taste of London, you might want to return.

Have a great trip. Hit the streets running and throw yourself into it. You can sleep on the plane ride home.

Barry

wsflyer

You may already have thought of this for an evening activity, but I immensely enjoyed watching a Shakespearian play at the reconstructed Globe. You can buy tickets or check the schedule at www.shakespeares-globe.org . If you have any energy left at the end of the day, you can be a "groundling" standing in front of the stage, or you can sit on the wooden bench seats (rent a cushion). For me, it was a magical experience. London is a wonderful theatre city--as a Disney fan, you may also enjoy Mary Poppins or The Lion King.

TIMP

My advice would be to do both Buckingham palace and Westminister in the morning before the hordes of tourists decend. IMNSHO Westminister needs quiet, which you lose after about 10am. Buckingham and Kensington could be done together. Hampton in my recollection is a whole day adventure in itself. Windsor CAN be done in a half day, however the town itself is alway quite interesting to wander around.
Buckingham Palace is exceedingly interesting - I have never done the tour but have walked through a few of the state rooms on my way to a garden party. There is also the Mews, and Horse Guards - if you do a changing of the guards I would suggests the Horse Guards, its REALLY nifty.

My proposal would be
day 1 - Buckingham Palace/Kensington Palace/Mews/Horse Guards
day 2 - Westminister/Tower of London
day 3 - Windsor
day 4 - Hampton Court.

There is no way you would be able to everything you want to do without really rushing. Also British Rail is an adventure in and above itself. For day 1 and 2 of this itn you would be best off getting a 2 day rail card (I think they actually come in 3 days) before you leave. Day 3 and 4 are "outside" the tube network. Windsor has trains every half hour or so, Hampton court I am lead to believe is actually really nice if approached from the water - you can get tour boats going up the Thames.

Krug's Itn is good as well - and more thought out than mine...its 5 years since I lived in London.

zipadee

Thank you Krug for all the wonderful thoughts and suggestions. That's awesome about the lunch suggestions.

Our hotel does have AC. I may have lived in Louisiana once and know hot and humid but my hubby would die without real air conditioning.....

We leave Aug. 11 so thankfully that particular picketing won'ta ffect us and we leave on a Saturday morning so hopefuylly we won't have major problems. I have read diligently the baggage thread and am gritting my teeth for the horror (lol). I think I may get a backpack instead of my usual carry on bag for the trip so I can shove a small . Any suggestions on a backpack from anyone?

We are flying into LHR on LH and returning home via LGW on AA. Our flight on Saturday, Aug. 11, is just a few minutes after 10. Which train would you recommend and what time should we leave our hotel, which is suppose to be near Victoria Station.

Will an Oyster card cover me on the national rail or is that separate? And I can't buy a rail pass that works in both Britian and Germany and Poland, correct?

As someone who has been at Magic Kingdom at early entry opening and shut down MGM at 1 a.m. (with an afternoon rest of course) and done three parks in one day (never done all four in one day though but some day I will) I'm hoping I can do the London walking and not get tourist overload.

Unfortunately, we only have FOUR days and five nights. Your suggestion is for five days. What would you suggest cutting? And as great as Harrods may be, seeing the historical sights is more important to me than shopping. I love your tea suggestion, thank you so much.

The suggestions seem to be do Tower of London, Buckingham Palace and Westminster Abbey first thing in the morning to avoid the crowds (And as someone who can get as much done in an hour at early opening for Magic Kingdom as three hours in the late afternoon I totally understand that)....but I probably need to do one of the three in the afternoon.

Which would be better for afternoon? And Westminster Abbey is open until 7 on Wednesdays and some guide books suggest that. How would I be doing a verger tour at 2:30-4 and then touring the abbey after that on the Wednsday? Would it still be swamped or the crowds lessened? Would I be suicidal to do Tower of London in the afternoon?

Thank you so much for detailing how far it is from Victoria to Tower of London. Helps immensely with planning. Sounds like you had a lovely day with your friend. And thanks so much for the web site suggestions.

Fabulous stuff, I really appreciate it from you and everyone who has taken the time to respond. Thank you

zipadee

[QUOTE=jabrams72;7860307]In addition to the TimeOut guide, I'd recommend TimeOut Food and Drink (that is, if food matters to you).

QUOTE]

Ohhhhh in a major way. I lived in Louisiana. Food and politics reigns supreme there (kind of like football in Texas and BBQ in KC). My favorite part of my Disney trips is planning my meals. We love good food so that is a great suggestion, thank you so much! I had been warned by friends that the food was bad in London so it's awesome to hear some suggestions that sound quite the contrary!

zipadee

Barry thank you so much for your thoughtful post and wonderful suggestions and web sites. I know you mentioned buying my tickets in advance....since we had planned on doing Hampton Court and Tower of London and possibly Kensington Palace I had planned on getting the year long membership to the society/association that supervises them that gives you admission and discounts. Am I correct in thinking that is my best bet? It's 58 pounds for two people I believe.


And I have no doubt about wanting to return to London. I'm sure I'll be heartsick at all the things I cannot cram in!


Have a great trip. Hit the streets running and throw yourself into it. You can sleep on the plane ride home.


Great advice, thank you so much!