BigFlyer

I think that would be a waste of time. Watch a few episodes of that Border Force show I linked to. They refuse entry all of the time to people with visas, and the fact the visa was issued does not seem to weigh in their on camera deliberative process.

However, if you watch a few episodes it is pretty clear you will get in. If you have documentation re the event you are attending, you will see that you are an entirely different category than the people they reject. I also know from the experience of the child of a friend that they are very suspicious of people that studied with a student visa, who then try to come back immediately as tourists. The friend's kid got back in after severe questioning, but was not travelling with a girlfriend as you were.

NWIFlyer

TV programmes such as those that show immigration and customs procedures throughout the world are intended to be dramatised and do not represent real life - at least not the real life I’ve seen when I’ve passed through many of them. They pick the most dramatic or human interest stories, not the more routine cases which we see here (relatively) with the OP.

I would not rely on anything I see in them, either positive or negative, in trying to work out a sensible route forward.

It simply is not true that “they refuse entry to people with visas all the time”, at least in the sense portrayed that very large numbers have this happen. By and large, they don’t - they refuse people with the wrong visa, which is an entirely different thing.

In contrast, yes, the OP is in an “entirely different category” to the people we see on screen. That’s because the OP’s case is rather more mundane and wouldn’t feature on TV - but there are still some complications around it which the Border Force officers will know about, and he is right to be cautious about what he needs to do to ensure a smoother passage.

UKGrad

UKGrad

BigFlyer

Something we can all agree on - you won't see an immigration officer at AMS. Arriving in AMS from the US going to the UK (which is outside Schengen) you are a transit passenger and will not go through passport control.

NWIFlyer

What usually happens at NWI (or at least used to last time I arrived there internationally, which is a few years) is the EU passengers are dealt with first, which takes just a few minutes, and those without automatic entry are asked to wait in a separate queue. The chances are there'll be less than 10 people in that queue - probably sizeably less - so generally it doesn't take long to clear.

I also very much doubt there are any locked rooms at NWI given the scale of the airport - you're more likely to be given a cup of tea whilst you wait even if you're sent to secondary!

UKGrad

Ah, that's a bit of a relief then, thanks!

UKGrad

Also reassuring, thanks!

B747-437B

If one has a refusal of entry from any EU state (including the UK), then such data WILL be available via SIS accordingly for up to 5 years and possibly longer depending on the specific case. The unique key for this data is not passport number but rather name/DOB/Citizenship (and increasingly biometrics if collected). Therefore, it is more than likely that changing a passport (unless simultaneously combined with change of name/DOB - and then too provided no biometric data has been previously collected) will not be of any use as far as obscuring past travel history.

That said, there is no reason to assume that prior refusal would be an indicator of future refusal. Especially in this case where there has been a material change of circumstance since the prior refusal that would seem to overcome the reasons for refusal. I would not worry about OP being denied entry provided the various supporting bonafides described in various posts above are available. In a worst case scenario, unless they encounter a pair of particularly sadistic jobsworths at the airport (viz. the frontline officer AND the CIO), they may not be granted leave to enter but rather conditional temporary entry for a few days around their graduation dates.

Don't overthink the possible outcomes and present too much documentation as that often obscures the basic point OP needs to make - that they are traveling for a permitted purpose on THIS trip. Their previous refusal is not prima facie grounds for future refusal.

UKGrad

Sorry again to ask for specifics, if possible, but any idea how much of the refusal information is retained in the system e.g. the full interview or the condensed statement given to me about their decision? I don't know whether I should expect to recount the event and corroborate my answers to them. The questioning involved discussions about my partner, but wasn't written on the final refusal paper.

Biometrics were taken and I remember being told that everyone who is questioned, whether granted leave to enter or not, is scanned and it's saved for up to 10 years. Since that information is shared to Schengen states, even if I successfully return to the UK this month I feel rather discouraged from traveling through Europe for the next few years. I suppose successful entry to the UK may not even factor into weighing towards their favor in the future if I'm just flagged each time my name/DOB comes up at the borders?

B747-437B

Unless there is an underlying reason for extended inadmissability (eg. criminal history, false statements, etc..), a prior refusal on its own is not suggestive of any future refusal.

As I noted above, you have a material change in circumstances already (viz. you are no longer a student who has recently completed a course and is at risk of illegally overstaying) so any potential grounds for additional scrutiny on the basis of the prior refusal no longer exist. So long as your profile is as described (US Citizen, no criminal record, travel purpose consistent with visa free travel) there is no prima facie legal basis to deny you entry to any European state.

:D!

You should assume they know everything, but don't volunteer any information that wasn't asked. That's true for all situations involving immigration to any country, unless you are certain it is not true.

Sintaku

I'd say it comes down to risk. My spouse applied for a visa to do her sabbatical in the UK and it was denied due to her teaching online which wasn't allowed.

She traveled to the UK multiple times with me (we both live in the USA and I am a dual citizen), and she would get extensive questions in secondary processing. Usually once she explains it was sorted and they were satisfied she was coming on a trip with me, since both of us have work in the USA/mortgage/car loans/kids in school/return ticket/etc... They can be pretty tough on UK or the USA borders.

I think it is a case of you needing to apply for the appropriate visa (especially since you have significant ties to the UK) to be on the safe side, getting a visa isn't a requirement but could make life easier and less costly in case you get rejected at the border again.

UKGrad

So I made a last minute change and instead of flying into NRW via AMS, I got a cheaper fare direct to LHR. A reason for going with this route is that my mother decided to travel with me to attend the graduation. I do think it helped that she accompanied me.

Long story short: I'm happy to report that upon landing, I was granted leave to enter and spent 10 days in East Anglia and London, meeting with old friends and family, throwing my mortarboard hat after the ceremony, and making the most of the trip with the gf whilst surviving that awful, humid heat wave (please put A/C on public transport and in public buildings!).

I think I was fortunate. I arrived mid-afternoon and the queue was non-existent, reminding me of the last experience I had with Border Force. Mind you, this happened to coincide with the time a certain US public figure was in town. We were asked the standard questions and we gave our respective answers. As expected, something came upon the screen and the officer did a few double-takes, then proceeded to ask whether I'd applied for a visa recently or tried to enter and asked me to explain what happened. After I gave my truncated reply, he looked disappointed and shook his head while writing down details on the sheet about taking my passport and subjecting me to further scrutiny. Though I had an idea of what was to happen next, I showed him proof of graduation/guest tickets, our hotel booking, and proof of return. My mother was stamped through and asked if she'd like to wait with me in the nearby holding area, saying it wouldn't be 5 minutes before he'd be back. Though he was definitely following protocol, this officer was very polite and surprisingly sympathetic--definitely more pleasant to deal with than others from past experiences. I can't say how many times I thanked him in the end. He even seemed genuinely delighted when learning my purpose was uni graduation. After waiting no longer than a moderately anxious 15 minutes, the officer returned and told me to follow him. I thought I was going to be led into another room for questioning, but he handed back my passport and said it had been stamped. He also immediately offered a kind word of advice, saying that the flag will come up again for a little while every time I try to come through, but as long as I am honest and upfront about everything like this time and have similar supporting documents, it should be okay.

Trying to contain my elation and thinking I had limited time, I only managed to ask how long the flag would come up and my mother asked if it affected entry into European countries. To the former he said a couple of years and when I clarified whether it would be 5, he said he didn't think it would be that long. To the latter he also said he thinks it's only for the UK. And though he sounded reassuring, there wasn't enough certainty in his tone for me to believe what he said was the final word.

I then asked if I needed to apply for a visa online every time I visited, but he gave a firm "no", saying that once I arrive they will grant leave to enter again. That confused me a bit, but I didn't actually look at the stamp until after I'd gotten my bags. It says "Leave to enter for 6 months." I wish I'd remembered to look and ask what that meant- whether that's for a total of six months worth of being in the country for this and subsequent visits or six months from the date of entry. Either way, I'm back in the US now and haven't made immediate plans to return within that time frame.

In the meantime, many thanks to you all for your kind and very helpful words after I posted my original ordeal! I didn't mean for the thread to go on so long but I'd like to think for now, I have a little more confidence that trying to return to either the UK or EU may not be as worse as I thought it might be.

NWIFlyer

I've driven past the UEA several times in the last fortnight at various times, and saw many graduates posing for photographs both in the surrounding area (although I'm still mystified by the attraction of the lay-by outside the church!) and elsewhere in Norwich. I thought of this thread at the time and wondered how you got on.

I'm therefore so pleased you've come back and told us the ending; even more so that it's a happy one.