shaihiandineida

Hello everyone. We are new to these forums but my partner and I have been trying to figure out the best way for us to be together. We have been dating for six months and have never met each other, but we spend so much of each day together. We are hoping to find an effective solution to be able to live together in the near future, hopefully before the end of 2017. We don’t care where we live but we have planned to either live in the UK or US. We have a some questions we would like answered and any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Context: My partner is an EU/EEA national who is on her last year of school in the UK and is about to graduate. She has permanent residency in the UK but doesn't have a permanent residency document to prove it. She isn't sure whether she will go to university in the UK or look for work in the UK/US yet. I am a US citizen who is currently in university in the US but would be willing to drop out and go work in the UK if need be, then study there in 5 years once I can get permanent residence (UK student loans are better). We are considering getting married in the US (she doesn't need a visa to come here for 3 months and get married) then apply for an EEA family permit while still in the US and move to the UK. We could also stay in the US. My partner has permanent residency in the UK but doesn't have a permanent residency document to prove it.

Here are our questions:

1.If we apply for an EEA family permit in the US, how long should we expect the decision to take? We don't want to get married too soon after she comes here as this could be seen as suspicious, but we only have 3 months in total. We are worried that she may need to return to the UK without me while we're still waiting.

2.If she comes to visit me and get married in the US right after she finishes her exams, and stays here for 3 months, would she need to be a qualified person in the UK or would she only have to become one (continue studies or become a jobseeker) within 3 months of arriving back in the UK with me? We've read that if the EEA national is not in the UK they have the right to reside as a jobseeker for the first 3 months after arrival, but she is already resident there.

3.She never had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) while going to school. Does she need to have had CSI as a student during the last five years of school to be considered a qualified person for an EEA family permit? Would getting it for university be enough? If she becomes a jobseeker does she need to show that she had CSI during those last five years? What if she goes on to study in university?

4.If she gets married in the US and gains residency here what happens to her permanent residence in the UK if she doesn’t have a permanent residence document? Could she go back to the UK after 2-3 years and still be eligible for a UK student loan? How long would she have to live in the UK for to be eligible once she returns?

5.If we were to live in the US, what visa would be processed faster (K-1, K-3 or CR-1) and which one would be the most beneficial in our situation? Could she come here without a visa just to get married, with the intention of going back to the UK after applying for an EEA family permit, but remain and become resident here if the EEA application is rejected? We have read that this option may work if she comes to the US without a visa to get married with the intention to return to the UK but could apply for residence here in the case of an “unexpected” engagement. Otherwise, and also if the marriage takes place too early after arriving here, this could be suspected as visa fraud. Instead, we could get married in the UK if I got a marriage visitor visa, or she could apply for a K-3 fiancée visa for the US, but we are worried that this would take too long. How long would she have to wait before being allowed to stay in the US if she applied for a K-1 visa instead?

bibbju

You really need to talk to an Immigration specialist rather than seeking advice on internet forums for something this significant.

However, from a UK perspective, I think it is extremely unlikely that you would be granted a EEA family permit at this stage, even if you marry during the 3 month US visit. UK Immigration specify it must be a "durable relationship" and applying for a EEA permit so soon after getting married is just one of the indicators they look for as evidence that the marriage isn't "durable" and is possibly one of convenience.

You say that you have been dating for 6 months (which isn't very long in the grand scheme of things) but you haven't actually met. I'm sorry to sound harsh but that isn't dating then. Your partner is a student (does she have enough income/savings to meet Immigration requirements for a spouse?), you've never met, you intend to marry within 3 months of meeting (and apply to live in the UK) and you're already talking about UK student loans for you in the future. This scenario is going to set a LOT of alarm bells off with UK Immigration. I think your chances of being allowed to stay in the UK are zero to non-existent.

I can't comment on US Immigration's view but surely it would be much more sensible to spend some time getting to know each other in person during vacations etc in each other's country, building up a history of your relationship (with photographic evidence of you together!) and then looking at your options in a couple of years? You would have a much better case with Immigration. And after all, if this is the person you think you're going to spend the rest of your life with, waiting a while isn't going to kill you.

shaihiandineida

Thank you for your reply. We will most likely contact an Immigration Specialist in the near future since our situation is pretty complicated. The better word for what we have is a very committed relationship, sorry for the mix-up there. We are planning to meet as soon as possible since we haven't had the chance (we have both been in school). We don't have the money to go on vacations but we are contemplating getting married and living in a different country to be together. The wait wouldn't kill us but we really would like to be together as soon as possible. Thank you again for your time.

UKtravelbear

Dating for 6 months but never met is going to be a huge red flag to immigration officials. You might think it shows commitment but not many others would. Certainly not visa issuing officers. One of their early thoughts will be sham marriage.

She has uk permanent residency but no documentation to prove it? It's likely she doesn't have it then. That's paper work you make sure you keep and a status you are 100% certain about.

What at do you mean by school? In the UK it is something very different to going to university - which you say she wants to do. How old is she?

You coming to work in the UK? - a non starter for LEGAL employment. illegal employment will count against any future application for UK status. If you do and are found then you'll soon be deported back to the US.

Marry in the US and apply for Family permit? that's not a quick process either and it's likely for her home country(which you don't mention) rather than the UK

You really do both need to be 100% certain of what you want to do and her status.

You simply must to a properly registered immigration specialists and I'm sure they'll be happy to help - at some considerable financial cost.

Aviatrix

I'm surprised no one has mentioned EU Free Movement....

1) EU citizens may move freely in the EU and live anywhere they like, as long as they don't become a burden on the state (i.e. claim benefits).

2) Immediate family of EU citizens (spouses and dependent children) enjoy the same free movement rights, regardless of nationality - but not, generally, in the EU citizen's home country where national law takes precedence over EU law (but.... google Surinder Singh!)

3) When it comes to setting up home EU nationals are subject to the same formalities as nationals of the country they live in. So - in countries where everybody has to register with the local authorities nationals of other EU countries have to do the same. In countries where people don't have to register with the local authorities (such as the UK) EU nationals can set up home without any special formalities.

What this means in the OP's case is...

- it would be relatively easy for the OP and partner to settle in the UK (for now) or any other EU country, except the partner's home country

- contrary to what has been suggested, it is entirely conceivable that the OP's partner is indeed permanently resident in the UK. It is only since the Brexit vote that EU nationals have suddenly been told that they need to apply for documents to prove their status or face deportation come 2019, before then everybody was happily living here without having had to go through any formalities other than those that British citizens have to go through - get a National Insurance number, register with the Tax Office, register with the NHS etc.

bibbju

1) The OP hasn't said that their partner is a EU citizen.

2) Certainly for the UK, it is unlikely that the OP's marriage will meet Immigration's requirements (given the information shared so far) and will be considered a marriage of convenience or not a "durable relationship".

It most definitely is NOT easy to settle in the UK with a non-EU spouse. I base this comment on the experience of number of UK citizens I know who have tried to bring their non-EU spouses to the UK. Even where their marriages have been accepted as genuine, the requirements in terms of employment, income and savings are quite stringent and this causes significant issues for a significant number of people unless they have well-paid jobs or significant savings (of which it appears the OP and his partner have neither).

Aviatrix

He said so in his very first post.

It doesn't have to meet those requirements. These requirements are for British citizens. EU nationals, making use of their Free Movement Rights, have an automatic right to bring their immediate family with them. They don't have to prove anything. That's the whole point. EU law applies, not national law (and the same would be the case if the OP's partner was a British citizen living in another EU country)

See above (and my earlier post). People come under national law in their own country but under EU law in all other countries. That's why border towns such as Malmö and Aachen are full of cross-border commuters with non-EU spouses. That's why lots of British/non-EU couples are living in Ireland.

shaihiandineida

We are going to see each other as soon as possible since we have been in school for the duration of our relationship. We realize it hasn't been that long and how it might look suspicious, but we just want to be together. We arewillingto live anywhere we can if these countries aren't viable.

She is 100% certain about her permanent residency status. She has lived with her family for six years in Ireland and they don't have a document to prove it. We are in the process of obtaining this documentation.

By school I mean A levels[A-2] not university and she is 18. We aren't sure if she needs to have had CSI for the last five years because she was studying.

As stated in these links, an EEA permit is enough for employment. It would be easier with a residence card which is what I plan to apply for when I can.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...spouse_enterin
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

She is a Lithuanian citizen and you can apply for the permit if your spouse is an EEA national as stated in the above link to gov.uk.

Thank you for your time, we have started the process of getting quotes from specialists.

shaihiandineida

Thank you. We are looking into EU Free movement
right now. From what we are reading we still need an EEA family permit and the concerns about comprehensive sickness insurance and the authenticity of our relationship due to the length are still there. We are considering moving to another EU country first based on the EU free movement right if we can.

Aviatrix

Just spotted something else that is not correct...

Non-EU spouses of EU citizens are allowed to work in the UK.

GUWonder

Indeed.

EU mobility rights are a very powerful tool for crossborder relationships, a tool that allows for relationships to blossom that would otherwise be frustrated if national laws didn't have to include EU mobility rights as part of the applicable body law.

I've seen plenty of vacation-initiated relationships between Scandinavians and Americans, Canadians, Russians, Egyptians, Thais, Argentines, Peruvians, Bolivians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Indians, Pakistanis and many others result in Malmo becoming a more cosmopolitan place than it would otherwise be. This is courtesy of the Danish crackdown on cross-border romantic/martial relationships directed at its own nationals and permanent residents.

To do such a move legally when using treaty rights can be very easy and fast.
Indeed. Even if the spouses have only been recently married. To have a durable, romantic partnership status is sufficient to use the treaty rights, whether married or not.