WHBM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36181319

The government is actually launching a discussion about tipping (always fertile FT discussion ground), which is starting to get out of hand in the same manner that it did in the USA long ago.

Tips on a credit card line seem to be particularly liable to be diverted to the proprietor, or inappropriate members of the team.

I was amazed to find that a few places are actually back-charging waiting staff 3% of the day's turnover as a means of recovering some of the tip money for their own purposes. This could surely be stamped out by HMRC finding some breach of taxation law, as they do with those who breach minimum pay. Others have been deducting 10% of the tip amount from the staff shareout as an "administrative fee". Haha. Notably they all seemed to stop once it gets into the press and journalists quiz the owners about it.

Creeping pre-added percentages are happening as in the US. Once 10% was universal, nowadays 12.5% seems a London standard for pre-adding, and I've seen a couple of 15% coming in.

Leaving credit card tip lines open after a service charge has already been added (possibly with an obscure code like SV CHG) is a particular hangup of mine, and it seems of this enquiry as well.

Another one that recently came to light was all the credit card tips being only shared among regular staff, and daily contract waiters (sometimes the majority) not being included in the shareout, on the basis that it was only passed back weekly/monthly. This was even happening in the House of Commons dining room until MPs discovered it and stamped it out with the catering contractor.

lhrsfo

I, and I know quite a few others, deduct the service charge altogether in these circumstances. I call the head waiter and explain I want a new bill prepared without the service charge because I don't want to reward attempts at deception.

Plus, when this happens, it's important to leave bad Google and Yelp reviews.

Doc Savage

As a point of information, is tipping of waiters expected in the UK, and if so, what is the usual amount?

Just curious.

Cheers,

Doc

Worcester

It's normally good form to add 10% if you are happy with the service. But be aware service charges added to you bill automatically or you may be tipping twice.

Some restaurants keep all the tips paid on credit cards, so best left in cash if possible.

Doc Savage

Thanks, I haven't spent time there in a few years. Always good to know the local norms.

Swiss Tony

I was irked to overhear a conversation that was happening in a bar/restaurant at a London station the other day. Management was interviewing a kitchen porter and explaining the pay.

They were quite open in admitting that the pay was below minimum wage (by 20p/hr or something of that order) but it would be topped up out of the tronc, which would take the wage to something above minimum.

The sooner we get transparency here, the better.

stut

I'd be quite happy to go to zero tipping and a decent living wage. Treat restaurant staff like professionals, not servants.

lhrsfo

+1

MAN Pax

Agree. Let the owners pay a living wage and run their own bonus system to reward good performers. I want to see the price I need to pay upfront and no more.

Clint Bint

Disagree.
Zero tipping leads to a drop in service.There HAS to be an incentive for good service in the same way there should be the option for customers to leave no tip for bad service.
It infuriates me that " discretionary gratuity " is the smallest print on the menu.

stut

Of course, the other option for bad service is simply not to return to the restaurant. Customers will always vote with their feet.

There are plenty countries where tipping isn't prevalent (Scandinavia, Japan...) where service doesn't suffer. And I would argue that tipping leads to worse service, not better.

Restaurants are low-margin businesses, and tipping inevitably means that, for the majority of places, the wages race to the bottom. Without a decent guaranteed income, and with a servile relationship, it becomes a low-grade, transient job, carried out in formulaic fashion.

Make it a salaried, professional job, and it's a very different prospect. Go to countries where this is the case, and you get a much better style of service, in my experience. The incentive for providing good service is that you are doing your job well - and it's up to the restaurant management to supervise and develop this, just as with any other salaried profession.

Clint Bint

I travel a lot in the States where service is far superior to the UK and tips far higher for the servers who I doubt would call themselves servile or carrying out their work in formulaic fashion.
The only downside is that tipping is expected even if service is crap which defies the whole point of tipping.
The problem in the UK is that catering wages are low and many people don't get tips.Higher wages would improve the industry but I still think outstanding service deserves a good tip.

stut

Personally, I find US service to be very variable. There's some great service out there, but there's also lots of tip-hunting behaviour. I don't need to be asked if everything's OK every 5 minutes. I don't need my glass to be topped up when it's more than an inch from the rim. I don't need every choice I make to be the absolute personal favourite of the waiter. And I really don't need a list of specials recited to me for 5 minutes, for me to already have forgotten the first by the time they get to the second.

Don't get me wrong, I really love the positive attitude you get in the US, and I think that spills over into service culture.

However, I also visit Scandinavia and Japan (hence my examples) on a regular basis, and would say that Japanese service, where tipping is anathema, far eclipses that of the US, and of course the UK. So I would argue that, on the whole, local culture has a far bigger effect on quality of service - not tipping.

But back to the UK... I stand by my argument, in the context of the UK. And much of Europe, to be honest.

An interesting example is France. Tipping isn't really done in France - it's all down to the service charge, normally included these days. Despite the reputation abroad, I find service in French restaurants one of the best out there (as long as you act as you should do). I know I can walk into a brasserie, will not be looked down on for dining alone, will have the waiter quickly clock whether I want to linger or have a quick bite, and can enter into a genuine discussion about the food on offer. And they will manage multiple speeds of service too. Because they have vast experience: they're professionals.

VivoPerLei

Agree completely. I just about never seem to have service problems in the UK or the rest of Europe, for that matter. My experiences in the USA have been, however, hit and miss. I almost get the feeling that in the USA being a waitperson is looked at as a stepping stone type of job until somebody finds something better.

Analise

I've seen the built-in 12.5% service fee (aka tip)....do restaurants and their employees want the national government mandating how they run their business?

Absolutely. Service can vary within the same street block let alone the entire country!

I have enjoyed fantastic service in the UK. Last month, I never had bad service. To blanket any country as having fantastic or lacking service is a blanket statement IMHO.