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Crackdown on Global Entry "Zero tolerance"

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Crackdown on Global Entry "Zero tolerance"

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Old Jun 12, 2014 | 3:46 am
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Originally Posted by Mats
Alphaod,
I think that CBP officers may end up being allies in this case.

To date, I've contacted both senators, my congressional representative, the CEO of the Port of Seattle, and Airlines for America. Nobody responded.

Even if I was told "we don't control this," or "not much we can do," I would have preferred some sort of response.

I can't think of anyone else to contact.
Did you contact your US Senators and US House Member when their interns and staff members' children are busy with year-end school work/finals or graduation and summer moving stuff? This is the time of the year where responses tend to be slower or non-existent because the cut-and-paste brigade is busy or absent and new replacements aren't there or aren't up to speed.
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Old Jan 6, 2015 | 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by chollie

I've bought Paracetamol in the UK when I ran out of aspirin for a headache. Trust me, I declared it. I'm glad I did, because the CBP officer did not know what it was and had to research it to decide if it was allowed. It's available OTC in the UK, of course.
Paracetamol is Tylenol. It takes a 3 second Google search for those that don't know that. The US, Japan and Canada are basically the only places that call it Acetaminophen.
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Old Aug 15, 2015 | 3:40 pm
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The big unresolved question here is, who is the "appropriate CBP official" to whom you are supposed to declare prescription drugs? If you wait until after you have been selected for random secondary inspection at the kiosk, it seems to me you'd be in trouble.

The only alternative I see is to use the regular process--I guess you could stand in the crew line, and I'm sure the crew members will love that--and declare to the agent there.

We also haven't figured out how to make a departure declaration.

Last edited by pdquick; Aug 15, 2015 at 4:16 pm Reason: Correction of a typo
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Old Aug 15, 2015 | 4:02 pm
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I just found this on the CBP website:

"Prescription medications should be in their original containers with the doctor's prescription printed on the container. It is advised that you travel with no more than personal use quantities, a rule of thumb is no more than a 90 day supply. If your medications or devices are not in their original containers, you must have a copy of your prescription with you or a letter from your doctor. A valid prescription or doctors note is required on all medication entering the U.S."

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...id/67/search/1

So apparently, the label on the bottle is considered the "prescription" for their purposes.

Here is the location information for CBP at U.S. ports of entry (and departure). I'm going to try showing up at the SFO site the day before my flight with boarding pass in hand for my 7:30AM flight and see what happens. I'll report back.

http://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports

This is, of course, a huge PITA.

Last edited by pdquick; Aug 15, 2015 at 4:03 pm Reason: Added the URL for CBP ports
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Old Aug 16, 2015 | 10:31 am
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Originally Posted by pdquick
I just found this on the CBP website:

"Prescription medications should be in their original containers with the doctor's prescription printed on the container. It is advised that you travel with no more than personal use quantities, a rule of thumb is no more than a 90 day supply. If your medications or devices are not in their original containers, you must have a copy of your prescription with you or a letter from your doctor. A valid prescription or doctors note is required on all medication entering the U.S."

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...id/67/search/1

So apparently, the label on the bottle is considered the "prescription" for their purposes.

Here is the location information for CBP at U.S. ports of entry (and departure). I'm going to try showing up at the SFO site the day before my flight with boarding pass in hand for my 7:30AM flight and see what happens. I'll report back.

http://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports

This is, of course, a huge PITA.
It is indeed. I'm curious to see how it goes for you.

For me, the real issue is the very serious consequences if one is unlucky enough to be singled out by a zero-tolerance agent looking to make an example of someone.

The odds may be slim, but it only takes once. This kind of shabby game-playing by our government agents disgusts me.
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Old Aug 16, 2015 | 12:01 pm
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Meanwhile, I've also run across this page from the DEA, regarding the applicable regulations in the CFR. I literally can't find a procedure for compliance with this anywhere. I'm considering sending a certified letter to CPB in advance of departure and letting it go at that.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21...01/1301_26.htm
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Old Aug 16, 2015 | 12:27 pm
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Originally Posted by pdquick
Meanwhile, I've also run across this page from the DEA, regarding the applicable regulations in the CFR. I literally can't find a procedure for compliance with this anywhere. I'm considering sending a certified letter to CPB in advance of departure and letting it go at that.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21...01/1301_26.htm
This is specific to scheduled drugs, and doesn't apply to other unscheduled prescription medication.
Any individual who has in his/her possession a controlled substance listed in schedules II, III, IV, or V, which he/she has lawfully obtained for his/her personal medical use,
[...]
a United States resident may import into the United States no more than 50 dosage units combined of all such controlled substances in the individual's possession that were obtained abroad for personal medical use.
There is undoubtedly some other regulation specific to re-importation of personal quantities of unscheduled, approved prescription drugs (which are not controlled substances, and which are regulated by FDA and not DEA) and similarly for importation of the same when acquired abroad. I've never been able to find it, and I've looked -- and just looked again.

The usually-quotes 90-day supply rule actually comes from a specific exemption for un-approved prescription drugs, e.g. back in the day AZT was the big driver. http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transpar.../ucm194904.htm
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Old Aug 17, 2015 | 2:52 am
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Right. This rule just covers controlled substances.

I can't find a rule that covers non-sceduled drugs, either, but we have established that there's a rule requiring a DEPARTURE declaration as well as an entry declaration for controlled substances, and one of the questions was how to do that.

I think I've found a clue to how to handle the departure declaration. You go to a port of entry and ask for a Form 4457 Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad. You can apparently do this in advance of your departure (i.e., not the same day) as long as the inventory on the form will match what you are taking out and taking back in. A replica of that form is here:

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...P%20Form_0.pdf

Ironically, I found the reference to this on the CBP page about taking firearms out of the country, but as you can see from the form, it covers all "Personal effects," not just firearms. The firearm guidance is here:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ifle%2C-gun%2C

I don't see any reason why the controlled substance declaration shouldn't work the same way. But like I said, I'll test this theory and report back.

I also think having a 4457 in your possession certainly bolsters your case that you are following the law if you get secondaried after using Global Entry, but I intend to ask when I go in to get the 4457 how I should proceed to declare when I return with residual meds, and whether I can still use GE.
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Old Aug 17, 2015 | 2:32 pm
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Recently my Wife got sick while in Panama and was prescribed Z-Pak and declared it upon arriving in MIA.

The Immigration Officer looked at her like she was nuts and said Z-Pak is not of any concern, get out of here and that was that.

I wish rules were rules and not rules are rules depending on who you talk to.
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Old Aug 17, 2015 | 2:39 pm
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Originally Posted by kmersh
Recently my Wife got sick while in Panama and was prescribed Z-Pak and declared it upon arriving in MIA.

The Immigration Officer looked at her like she was nuts and said Z-Pak is not of any concern, get out of here and that was that.

I wish rules were rules and not rules are rules depending on who you talk to.
+1000

When you have plenty of CBP employees telling people that 'if it goes in your mouth, you must declare it, even if it is allowed', it is completely inappropriate for a CBP agent to snap "why are you wasting my time?" at a traveller who declares chocolates and candy.

It's even more inappropriate to then send them for an inapplicable agricultural screening (I'm talking about you, ORD).
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Old Aug 17, 2015 | 2:55 pm
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Originally Posted by pdquick
I also think having a 4457 in your possession certainly bolsters your case that you are following the law if you get secondaried after using Global Entry, but I intend to ask when I go in to get the 4457 how I should proceed to declare when I return with residual meds, and whether I can still use GE.
Interesting. I've had a coworker hit a similar issue when bringing high value computer equipment* out of the country and back, and he was told to bring an invoice/receipt showing purchase in the United States in order to avoid duty. This looks like the alternative you'd want to do for that, if you didn't have the invoice.

Hard to imagine doing this with a bottle of pills, but I guess if you really need your scheduled medications it's better than the alternative.

(* the specific case was that we needed a very powerful server temporarily at a customer site in NZ for a few weeks, and it was not practical to lease one and set it up remotely. It was much easier and somewhat cheaper to send someone with it as personal baggage -- even with oversize and overweight fees -- and have him bring it in using a "temporary business materials" rule [I think this is also called carnet?] rather than send it Fedex and have it have to clear customs there unattended where they are likely to assume it will stay in the country. I volunteered for this, but my colleague was the more logical one to send. )

Originally Posted by chollie
It's even more inappropriate to then send them for an inapplicable agricultural screening (I'm talking about you, ORD).
From what I can see, declaring a potentially problematic food item and being sent to the agricultural inspectors (are they also CBP, or are they USDA?) is bordering on a reliable (but time consuming) way to avoid other aspects of secondary.
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Old Aug 18, 2015 | 8:31 am
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Originally Posted by nkedel
From what I can see, declaring a potentially problematic food item and being sent to the agricultural inspectors (are they also CBP, or are they USDA?) is bordering on a reliable (but time consuming) way to avoid other aspects of secondary.
It's hard to imagine what could be 'problematic' about chocolate, and quite a stretch to imagine what waiting in line to run my bag through an xray accomplished, other than shortening my layover. No questions asked.

As you note, it was better than a full-on secondary. Neither seemed an appropriate response to someone who declares 'chocolate candy'. If there were doubts (fresh fruit dipped in chocolate, Kindereggs), that should be resolved with a question or two, not require a secondary of any kind. IMHO.
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Old Aug 18, 2015 | 10:10 am
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Originally Posted by chollie
As you note, it was better than a full-on secondary. Neither seemed an appropriate response to someone who declares 'chocolate candy'. If there were doubts (fresh fruit dipped in chocolate, Kindereggs), that should be resolved with a question or two, not require a secondary of any kind. IMHO.
Yeah, I've had inspectors wave me past for packaged chocolate and bottles/cans of soda so many times that I stopped declaring either long before GE. At least last time I checked, GE still used the clearer wording about "meats, plants," -- OTOH, I really like bringing snacks from abroad back for friends and family and I've had a lot of things that were fine get sent off or an X-ray and a visit with the Ag inspectors before being cleared.
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Old Aug 18, 2015 | 1:00 pm
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They could replace "Zero Tolerance" with "Zero Common Sense". Works great for all kinds of things.
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Old Aug 18, 2015 | 2:36 pm
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I don't play games with this stuff. Not only is GE easily revoked, but it's easy to wind up on watch lists which can make entry a hell for a long time.

If it's declarable, I declare it. I could care less if some CBP Officer says that he doesn't care about throat lozenges or whatever.

I've got paper copies of prescriptions in case I need to see a doc overseas and it's 2 AM back in the US and I just need to show him what I take. Those papers go in a file with other essential stuff. I've never needed them, but I've got them.
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