A Work in Progress: Working in Europe
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
A Work in Progress: Working in Europe
Considering the fact that many of my co-workers are jealous of a field assignment in Europe, I am happy to be here. I would like to tell you that things are easy for the business traveler here and that people are always friendly but then I would be lying. Doing business in Europe is much like doing business in an area of the US that you don't know at all. Many people don't speak your language outside of your customers so you do your best to get by and PROVIDED you make an effort to learn, most are happy to help. Speaking English only is not only insulting to your host country(s), it opens the door for rip-offs from every direction. The point of this trip report is basicly help those people who have to deal with a travel office that has an insufficient database or knowledge for Europe and must move around a lot. I will be covering the Eurorail and European Legacy Carrier Airlines (LCAs). I hope to cover Ryanair, (Europe's dirty secret that your travel office may not know about) ferries and the British rail system.
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
Homeless?
Hotels are the life blood of my business trip in Europe. Without them, I'm sleeping in the car with my field teammates (not a pleasant thought). Many hotels in Europe do not register in common travel databases that many corporate travel offices use. They are either too small, don't advertise widely, don't like large groups or are not members of international chains. Much of my time is in Germany where we have had some good luck finding emaculate hotels for under 80 euros a night. However, you almost have to be in the town itself to find them and be driving or walking by. Some "good" German hotel chain connections are "NH" www.nh-hotels.com, "Best-Western" www.bestwestern.com, and "Accor" www.accor.com. Best-Westerns and Accors are much like the US, hit or miss but largely honest and if you want to pay a smaller amount and have it help you gain Diamond status, a decent bet. Hiltons, Marriotts et al. tend to be overpriced as they pay more in labor for an English speaking staff. Smaller hotels do not offer this but almost everyone in Germany knows someone who speaks English and can pinch hit for you or them. NH hotels, the three I've seen, are definatly a business travelers hit. All three were new or renovated recently with WiFi. They tend to have a good size restaurant and bar and located just off the beaten path to be convienient and out of the noise of nightlife. They are in the major German cities but maybe 1 or 2 locations each (Berlin has 5 by the way).
If you can, you may be able to forerun your hotel locations and find smaller german hotels. You might want to try www.bookings.de, www.traveltry.com or a bed and breakfast site www.bestlodging.com. If you must stay in a small town, these sites will enable you to expand your search beyond what hotels.com can bring.
Sidestep.com, for those who haven't found it yet can be a godsend at times as it will find many smaller hotels that lack the money to advertise widely. There are rankings from 1 to 5 stars (I recommend no less than 2 as it will usually ensure some quality to them but buyer beware).
If you can, you may be able to forerun your hotel locations and find smaller german hotels. You might want to try www.bookings.de, www.traveltry.com or a bed and breakfast site www.bestlodging.com. If you must stay in a small town, these sites will enable you to expand your search beyond what hotels.com can bring.
Sidestep.com, for those who haven't found it yet can be a godsend at times as it will find many smaller hotels that lack the money to advertise widely. There are rankings from 1 to 5 stars (I recommend no less than 2 as it will usually ensure some quality to them but buyer beware).
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by flyingcat2k
Many people don't speak your language outside of your customers so you do your best to get by and PROVIDED you make an effort to learn, most are happy to help. Speaking English only is not only insulting to your host country(s), it opens the door for rip-offs from every direction.
I'm an American in Europe working right now also (Vienna). I've noticed that some of my American colleagues don't seem to think it's important at all to learn the local lingo, and I find this difficult to understand also..
It is very important to at least try, because assuming that everyone knows and will speak to you in your native tongue is, well just plain rude. Yes, most everyone does know some english, but as you say, it makes life soo much easier to know the language of the country where you are visiting.
I was at a job last week with an American who did not have a good grasp of the language, and who didn't even bring a dictionary with her! And we did not have translators with us. After I met our foreign colleagues, I asked one of them if she would rather speak in english, or in her native tongue. Of course she would rather speak in her native tongue, without a doubt! So I ended up being the translator (which I don't mind doing, but wasn't really my purpose in coming here) I myself simply can't understand why someone would travel to a foreign country without bringing a dictionary of the language spoken there..
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
pgalore,
I share your dismay at your co-worker and definately hope that she was not your manager. That seems a very Dilbertish thing for a manager to do. Having been in Germany for the past two weeks, I couldn't agree more. The co-workers in my group that are having the most fun are the ones trying to learn the language. I will admit that even though I speak enough German to slog through the day, I didn't bring a dictionary with me and bought one at the first opportunity. Haben Sie Spass auf Osterreich gemacht. (feel free to correct my German, grammer is tripping me up right now).
I share your dismay at your co-worker and definately hope that she was not your manager. That seems a very Dilbertish thing for a manager to do. Having been in Germany for the past two weeks, I couldn't agree more. The co-workers in my group that are having the most fun are the ones trying to learn the language. I will admit that even though I speak enough German to slog through the day, I didn't bring a dictionary with me and bought one at the first opportunity. Haben Sie Spass auf Osterreich gemacht. (feel free to correct my German, grammer is tripping me up right now).
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
Automobiles
Having covered hotel connections, I would like to discuss auto transportation in the main continent. I can't speak for the British roadways or rails as I haven't been there yet.
Automobiles: Most of the major rental lines are here in Europe and will be more than happy to rent a car with the same guidelines that are in the US. Nobody under the age of 21, higher rates for 21-25 drivers, Ins. ect. There is an interesting note about Italy that my group hasn't been able to figure out. Avis will not allow any Mercedes vehicles in Italy. I believe that it has to do with vandalism or theft but more the latter.
To rent a vehicle you must also have an International Drivers Permit or an International Drivers Liscense (two separate entities). The drivers permit is available state side through AAA for $24 (non-member), and requires (2) passport photos. This is basicly a small booklet that says in about 12 different languages that one of the states in the USA was fooled into thinking you can drive (just kidding) and asks the local government to overlook the fact you have no local drivers license. If you get pulled over or cause an accident, I am not sure what protections you have as they will be determined by the local laws. US govt. protections do not apply so expect the worst.
The International Drivers Liscense is issued through an international racing body or could be through Interpol, I can't remember which. It is a very demanding test for this liscense and most of the ex-pat's over here will have at least looked into getting one. This is also a good first step exam for a racing career so if you know someone who races for a living, ask about it. The Drivers Liscense does give you legal standing in the EU courts of law, the permit may not. The classes and the exam are extreamly tough and considering the state of US drivers, most wouldn't pass even the 2nd time through.
I would like to also note that I have been told about a reciprocating agreement between the state of Utah and Germany. I was told about this by a Utah native resident so it may be urban legend, may not. If you have a Utah drivers liscense, Germany will reciprocate and grant you the same rights of a German Drivers License. I do NOT know what this entails but I am RECOMMENDING you get AT LEAST A PERMIT even if you are from Utah.
Roadways are a difficult thing here in Europe as the lanes can get extreamly narrow and signs can become confusing as there are so many of them. There is a US Army drivers guide that is available on the public server. I will not give out the website as the document does not specificly say "distribution unlimited" but it does exist. I would also recommend getting a car with GPS navagation or a very good navagator with a road atlas.
If you get lost and are using a road atlas in the USA, a GPS is a must in Europe. European atlases are tricky, have numerous ways to designate roadways and not be very complete in my estimation (I don't get lost in the US when using an atlas). A good road atlas to have is the ESSO Road Atlas. It uses consistant map symbols and has the location of every ESSO station in Europe. ExxonMobil likes to know where it's stations are and now you can too. I do not know if BP or RD-Shell have similar products but they probably do.
Finally, to end this little diatribe, fuel prices. If you thought that CalGasoline hitting $3.00 was a milestone, you'll enjoy fueling up here. Diesel still runs at a discount to regular gasoline, or Super in Europe. The current price in my little corner of Germany is 1.09 Euro for diesel and 1.16 for the low grade Super. This is the price in LITERS. A US gallon is 3.78 Liters and the USD is at ~30% discount to the Euro. This translates to prices of $5.36 per US gallon for diesel and $5.70 per gallon for gasoline. Expect to pay about 60 to 75 Euros to go from Empty to Full. Unless you are a group of 4 or 5, it is cheaper to use the trains here in Europe to get from point A to B and it will also save you the hassle of parking. If you have to rent vehicles, just make sure that you factor in the price of fuel.
Automobiles: Most of the major rental lines are here in Europe and will be more than happy to rent a car with the same guidelines that are in the US. Nobody under the age of 21, higher rates for 21-25 drivers, Ins. ect. There is an interesting note about Italy that my group hasn't been able to figure out. Avis will not allow any Mercedes vehicles in Italy. I believe that it has to do with vandalism or theft but more the latter.
To rent a vehicle you must also have an International Drivers Permit or an International Drivers Liscense (two separate entities). The drivers permit is available state side through AAA for $24 (non-member), and requires (2) passport photos. This is basicly a small booklet that says in about 12 different languages that one of the states in the USA was fooled into thinking you can drive (just kidding) and asks the local government to overlook the fact you have no local drivers license. If you get pulled over or cause an accident, I am not sure what protections you have as they will be determined by the local laws. US govt. protections do not apply so expect the worst.
The International Drivers Liscense is issued through an international racing body or could be through Interpol, I can't remember which. It is a very demanding test for this liscense and most of the ex-pat's over here will have at least looked into getting one. This is also a good first step exam for a racing career so if you know someone who races for a living, ask about it. The Drivers Liscense does give you legal standing in the EU courts of law, the permit may not. The classes and the exam are extreamly tough and considering the state of US drivers, most wouldn't pass even the 2nd time through.
I would like to also note that I have been told about a reciprocating agreement between the state of Utah and Germany. I was told about this by a Utah native resident so it may be urban legend, may not. If you have a Utah drivers liscense, Germany will reciprocate and grant you the same rights of a German Drivers License. I do NOT know what this entails but I am RECOMMENDING you get AT LEAST A PERMIT even if you are from Utah.
Roadways are a difficult thing here in Europe as the lanes can get extreamly narrow and signs can become confusing as there are so many of them. There is a US Army drivers guide that is available on the public server. I will not give out the website as the document does not specificly say "distribution unlimited" but it does exist. I would also recommend getting a car with GPS navagation or a very good navagator with a road atlas.
If you get lost and are using a road atlas in the USA, a GPS is a must in Europe. European atlases are tricky, have numerous ways to designate roadways and not be very complete in my estimation (I don't get lost in the US when using an atlas). A good road atlas to have is the ESSO Road Atlas. It uses consistant map symbols and has the location of every ESSO station in Europe. ExxonMobil likes to know where it's stations are and now you can too. I do not know if BP or RD-Shell have similar products but they probably do.
Finally, to end this little diatribe, fuel prices. If you thought that CalGasoline hitting $3.00 was a milestone, you'll enjoy fueling up here. Diesel still runs at a discount to regular gasoline, or Super in Europe. The current price in my little corner of Germany is 1.09 Euro for diesel and 1.16 for the low grade Super. This is the price in LITERS. A US gallon is 3.78 Liters and the USD is at ~30% discount to the Euro. This translates to prices of $5.36 per US gallon for diesel and $5.70 per gallon for gasoline. Expect to pay about 60 to 75 Euros to go from Empty to Full. Unless you are a group of 4 or 5, it is cheaper to use the trains here in Europe to get from point A to B and it will also save you the hassle of parking. If you have to rent vehicles, just make sure that you factor in the price of fuel.
#6




Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: Delta Gold 1 MM
Posts: 2,711
what one really needs to rent a car in Europe
All that I have ever needed in Britian, Ireland, Germany, France and Italy is my state drivers license.
All I have ever needed to drive in Great Britian, Ireland, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, the former Czechoslovakia, the former Yugoslavia, Greece, Italy, Monaco, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Andorra, San Marino, Spain, Portugal, and Monaco has been my state drivers license.
All I have ever needed for a traffic ticket in Hungary and Spain has been my state drivers license.
What I used for my accident in Italy was my International Drivers License (which I need when I rent and drive in Thailand) even thought the state license is valid. The International just made it easier to deal with the police.
Having held an FIA license for racing in many years ago, it required a valid state license and no testing other than for the original state permit. It did require a driving course sponsered by SCCA.
I am unsure where you are getting the information you are putting out as fact , but it is misleading at best.
Please note that additionally the military has status of forces agreements with various European countries and does issue its own licenses to drive military vehicles.
And finally, excellent maps are readily available and have served me well over the years. The rare occassion that one gets lost just adds to the adventure. A GPS is definitely not necessary unless one is an absolute techno-geek. Everwonder how Lewis and Clark completed their adventure when they did not even have a map?
All I have ever needed to drive in Great Britian, Ireland, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, the former Czechoslovakia, the former Yugoslavia, Greece, Italy, Monaco, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Andorra, San Marino, Spain, Portugal, and Monaco has been my state drivers license.
All I have ever needed for a traffic ticket in Hungary and Spain has been my state drivers license.
What I used for my accident in Italy was my International Drivers License (which I need when I rent and drive in Thailand) even thought the state license is valid. The International just made it easier to deal with the police.
Having held an FIA license for racing in many years ago, it required a valid state license and no testing other than for the original state permit. It did require a driving course sponsered by SCCA.
I am unsure where you are getting the information you are putting out as fact , but it is misleading at best.
Please note that additionally the military has status of forces agreements with various European countries and does issue its own licenses to drive military vehicles.
And finally, excellent maps are readily available and have served me well over the years. The rare occassion that one gets lost just adds to the adventure. A GPS is definitely not necessary unless one is an absolute techno-geek. Everwonder how Lewis and Clark completed their adventure when they did not even have a map?
Last edited by opushomes; Apr 24, 2005 at 11:26 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
Driving in Europe
Our group's experience is having no driving experience in Europe or racing. Those who didn't go over the roadway signs had trouble the first 2 days driving in town as they had to second guess the signs. That is why I recommended going over the roadway signs at a minimum to try and keep other traffic moving. The US military will issue drivers liscenses but as to what they apply I have no idea and they may or may not issue them to spouses. I am not in the military so I have no idea.
As to using a normal US state drivers liscense in the Europe, I am speaking on purely legal ground. What the local constable does is up to him. The European Union or other foreign governments are not under any obligation to recognize a US state's drivers liscense as they are not issued under the US sovereignty. They are issued under the state sovereignty ie. California, Arizona et al. There is no formal treaty that I am readily aware of that will acknowledge a US license as equal to the local license. I believe that the local governments overlook this fact to not clog up the court systems with Americans driving without local licenses and get along with the US Government. There is, as I understand, a treaty governing International Drivers Licenses, thus the International bit. When the Mexican cop pulls you over and asks you for a Mexican license, he actually does have a legitimate right to ask for that document. If he takes $50 to look the other way, that's his perogative.
The permit issue is one that we have dealt with on renting cars here in Europe. The Avis at Frankfurt airport has asked for them the 2 times I've been present at the counter. They cared little for the US license if there was no permit. They might do it for regular customers or the frequent renters but according to their company policy, they want to see it. Plus, it's $24 that hopefully will never have to be used.
I will admit that maps that are easily read by one person are not read easily by another. I am not recommending buying a hand held GPS unit, only getting a car with the navigation. For those who have never been to Europe, it definatly helps. Again, this has been our group's experience. By the way, what map "brand" have you found to work better than others? At least it's another recommendation and thanks for the input.
As to using a normal US state drivers liscense in the Europe, I am speaking on purely legal ground. What the local constable does is up to him. The European Union or other foreign governments are not under any obligation to recognize a US state's drivers liscense as they are not issued under the US sovereignty. They are issued under the state sovereignty ie. California, Arizona et al. There is no formal treaty that I am readily aware of that will acknowledge a US license as equal to the local license. I believe that the local governments overlook this fact to not clog up the court systems with Americans driving without local licenses and get along with the US Government. There is, as I understand, a treaty governing International Drivers Licenses, thus the International bit. When the Mexican cop pulls you over and asks you for a Mexican license, he actually does have a legitimate right to ask for that document. If he takes $50 to look the other way, that's his perogative.
The permit issue is one that we have dealt with on renting cars here in Europe. The Avis at Frankfurt airport has asked for them the 2 times I've been present at the counter. They cared little for the US license if there was no permit. They might do it for regular customers or the frequent renters but according to their company policy, they want to see it. Plus, it's $24 that hopefully will never have to be used.
I will admit that maps that are easily read by one person are not read easily by another. I am not recommending buying a hand held GPS unit, only getting a car with the navigation. For those who have never been to Europe, it definatly helps. Again, this has been our group's experience. By the way, what map "brand" have you found to work better than others? At least it's another recommendation and thanks for the input.
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
Train transportation I
As I alluded to in my previous post, trains can be a cheap and easy way to move from place to place without having to drive anywhere if you are a single traveler. According to Deutche Bahn, it is not uncommon for business travelers to use the train to move around the country. Considering that the longest common route without leaving Germany is about 10 hours, that is possible. Again, according to the rail line, business travelers are more likely to purchase 1st class tickets but I believe that 2nd class is more likely. (Sounds familiar to US air carrier advertising).
As a N. American or S. American citizen, you can purchase a railpass which comes in dozens of different options or go point to point. Frommer's put out a Europe by Rail guide this year that is about 2" thick full of connections and railpass information. I'll try to sum up the basics.
The 2 main flavors of passes are a standard pass and a flexipass. Both passes are good for a certain number of days ie 10, 15 ect. The standard pass has these days as consecutive and the "flexi" pass uses only days of travel over a 2 month period. Believe it or not, the "flexi" passes are cheaper and can become even more cheaper if you restrict your travels to 3, 4, or 5 countries. I purchaced a "flexi" pass as I will be traveling by rail on my time off rather than work but these passes would work for business travel also. The main reason to get a pass is if you have to make long haul (usually 4+ hr.) trips accross country multiple times. If you are moving around but in a close area or making very few long trips, a pass doesn't pay off with cost savings and you are better served buying point to point. The passes can only be sent to overseas addresses or available in limited locations in Europe for a premium so best to investigate prior to arrival.
My experience with Deutche Bahn has been good so far. Most of the employee's I've encountered have been friendly and can speak at least some English. Most appear to be pretty fluent. The Swiss Bahn is also very nice. I haven't had a problem with trains being late or not running at all. The first class cabin on most trains is very quiet and very empty. This may be because I am traveling on weekends or most travelers taking the train are purchasing 2nd class tickets. During the summer season, I imagine that the trains will be packed with tourists particularly the July-August months. I have been on several trains where 2nd class is full to the gills and 1st class is nearly void of people. As the difference on some routes is 10 to 20 Euro's, ask about 1st class before taking the 2nd class seat.
There are different types of trains but most business travelers will be interested in the ICE and the IC. IC stands for Inter City (the E is Express). These are the fast modern trains that make the advertisements in all the papers. The IC/ICE makes few stops and will move between most major cities. I have found that most of these trains usually have some connections in Koln (Cologne)/Dusseldorf, Mannheim, Munchen (Munich), Berlin, and Stuttgart. I highly recommend paying attention to what type of train you are on as the S trains are much slower.
For example, there is an S train leaving from Stuttgart to Heidelburg and an ICE train leaving 45 minutes later. I got to Heidelburg on the ICE train and beat the S train by over 30 minutes. The S trains are the standard commuter trains but if you need to get to or from a smaller city, that's the service. I have had good luck using the Deutche Bahn website to view connections and travel times. www.bahn.de. There is an english section under the international guests tab.
As a N. American or S. American citizen, you can purchase a railpass which comes in dozens of different options or go point to point. Frommer's put out a Europe by Rail guide this year that is about 2" thick full of connections and railpass information. I'll try to sum up the basics.
The 2 main flavors of passes are a standard pass and a flexipass. Both passes are good for a certain number of days ie 10, 15 ect. The standard pass has these days as consecutive and the "flexi" pass uses only days of travel over a 2 month period. Believe it or not, the "flexi" passes are cheaper and can become even more cheaper if you restrict your travels to 3, 4, or 5 countries. I purchaced a "flexi" pass as I will be traveling by rail on my time off rather than work but these passes would work for business travel also. The main reason to get a pass is if you have to make long haul (usually 4+ hr.) trips accross country multiple times. If you are moving around but in a close area or making very few long trips, a pass doesn't pay off with cost savings and you are better served buying point to point. The passes can only be sent to overseas addresses or available in limited locations in Europe for a premium so best to investigate prior to arrival.
My experience with Deutche Bahn has been good so far. Most of the employee's I've encountered have been friendly and can speak at least some English. Most appear to be pretty fluent. The Swiss Bahn is also very nice. I haven't had a problem with trains being late or not running at all. The first class cabin on most trains is very quiet and very empty. This may be because I am traveling on weekends or most travelers taking the train are purchasing 2nd class tickets. During the summer season, I imagine that the trains will be packed with tourists particularly the July-August months. I have been on several trains where 2nd class is full to the gills and 1st class is nearly void of people. As the difference on some routes is 10 to 20 Euro's, ask about 1st class before taking the 2nd class seat.
There are different types of trains but most business travelers will be interested in the ICE and the IC. IC stands for Inter City (the E is Express). These are the fast modern trains that make the advertisements in all the papers. The IC/ICE makes few stops and will move between most major cities. I have found that most of these trains usually have some connections in Koln (Cologne)/Dusseldorf, Mannheim, Munchen (Munich), Berlin, and Stuttgart. I highly recommend paying attention to what type of train you are on as the S trains are much slower.
For example, there is an S train leaving from Stuttgart to Heidelburg and an ICE train leaving 45 minutes later. I got to Heidelburg on the ICE train and beat the S train by over 30 minutes. The S trains are the standard commuter trains but if you need to get to or from a smaller city, that's the service. I have had good luck using the Deutche Bahn website to view connections and travel times. www.bahn.de. There is an english section under the international guests tab.
#9


Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, MUCCI, Junior Jet Club.
Posts: 8,326
According to Deutche Bahn, it is not uncommon for business travelers to use the train to move around the country.
Eagerly awaiting the next installment of this invaluable guide.
#10


Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 2,415
Originally Posted by BahrainLad
WOW! I'm so surprised.
Eagerly awaiting the next installment of this invaluable guide.
Eagerly awaiting the next installment of this invaluable guide.
Come on. Even as a European Ive enjoyed reading his report. He pays attention to details. Besides hes a fairly new Flyer Talker, so welcome to FT.
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
City transportation
I would like to thank Bahrain Lad and Helsinki Flyer for your comments. I am amazed that people are actually interested in reading this. Like I have said in my first little blurb, I am just trying to help those who are inundated with having to travel in Europe and don't necessarily have good background information. I am now just trying not to screw up.
That said, I'll start my blurb on city transportation here in Germany but I think this would be good for most cities in Europe. After an airline commute, most American business folks head straight to the rental counter or a taxi. I covered the rental counter in a previous section. Taxi's in most major European cities are widely available at the airport, major rail points and some attractions like a group of museums (Berlin's Museum Island for example). In Germany, you can find rates posted somewhere within view of the extrior of the taxi, not necessarily posted on the door like NYC but I have seen a few. I haven't taken a taxi here in Germany but I imagine that it is as much a crap shoot as in the US. Some are good, some are bad. I have heard good things about Taxi's in London (the 60 minutes report comes to mind) but I haven't been able to verify this yet. I'll give it a try when I'm there.
Outside of Western Europe however, everything I have read says that you should be extreamly cautious about them. Prauge and Budapest taxi's are notorious about taking tourists for the proverbial "ride." There is a line of thought that you should barter with the taxi driver prior to even getting in the cab. If you speak the language, by all means, give it a try. For english speakers, it may not be worth the hassle if you get a particularly bad driver. If someone is trying to take advantage of you, your best option is to walk away if possible.
The other option that many Americans never try is the mass transit system. Many European cities do have their transit systems running into the early morning hours EXCEPT France!, well Paris at least. I got a bad report yesterday that my co-workers in Paris had to walk back to their hotel after being out until 1AM. Not the best experiance with mass transit as they like driving everywhere. There are even good systems in even medium size cities like Mannheim or tourist areas like Heidelburg. Granted, you may be better off walking in these areas but know where the tram lines are for a faster way to get to a meeting.
Mass transit in Germany usually includes both bus and tram routes. Major cities have some subway systems. Berlin, and I imagine others like Frankfurt and Hamburg, have all 3 networks. Berlin's is massive and extends from Potsdam all the way to Neuenhagen I believe. You can still tell where the wall was and the city has been really good about a small line of cobblestones and markers demarking exactly where the outer wall was. For those who don't know, there was an outer wall, the one with all the graffiti, a deadman zone and then another wall. Much of the wall zone is now being filled in with apartments and such. <<Notes on this later>>
Berlin's system is under constant construction with the major area being Potsdammer Platz, where Hitler's bunker is now under a nearby parking lot unless they removed it. I was amazed at the growth as I was there in 1994 when there was just dirt, dirt, and some rubble piles and a free standing section of Wall. The major transit lines are Charlottenburg to Ostbahnhoff (4 lines each plus others) and a city ring line consisting of 3 to 5 lines. Berlin's maps are confusing as there are 2 of them. One shows the U, for Unterbahn (I know the Unter part is right), system and then an S for Stadtbahn.
The confusion comes in as the maps can overlap on each other so you have to know which one you are looking at. The nasty part is that they can be displayed next to each other in most stations. The best way to tell is to look for "grayed" in areas around Bahnhof Zoo or FriedrichStrasse. The grayed in areas on this map will show the U system. I haven't seen any U system maps with the S system grayed in, they are usually running on top or with the U line. Many stations will have a yellow circle around the station you are at or a red arrow which can definatly help when trying to make a connection. I think most know how what a subway line is so I won't go into that.
Alright, now we come to fares. Many fares are available through the machines at all rail stations. The nice city government of Berlin has issued touch screen machines that are available in the major languages. I believe they did this to eliminate any excuse for tourists to say, "I didn't know what da machine told me". According to my reading material, it's a 40 euro fine to be found by your neighborhood metro politzi (police). You are definatly better off just buying a ticket as a 3 day all area pass is 22 euros. There are 3 areas to the Berlin system called A, B, and C (I know its complicated). Most of the attractions and business points will be in A but if you have to go to Potsdam, that is in C and the Olympic Stadium is in B I believe (my map in front of me is not as extensive as others).
The most common fares are a Point to Point, PTP or a timed usage pass from 90 minutes to a Day Card. In ALL CASES, tickets must be validated when first used, this goes for Day and MultiDay tickets as well. If you don't do this, your neighborhood Euro collector will be more than happy to help you after you paid him (granted he must find you first). If he just validates your ticket at the next stop, consider it a warning and say Vielen Danke.
In the major cities and most smaller ones, it does not pay to do PTP unless it is less than 2 Euros, which I have never seen in my short travels (you'll see why in a minute). There are strap tickets, which are good for a certain number of trips. To use these, you will be given a strip of tickets at the time of purchase. When you want to use the system, tear off a ticket and VALIDATE it. Depending on local rules, you may have to use another ticket to go the opposite direction.
The option I use is the Day Card or Day Pass (Tageskarte). This way, I don't have to mess with validating, knowing zones (unless I wanted to go to a stadium or was being cheap), or messing with a machine late at night. These passes can cost between 5 to 7 euros a day and larger cities like Berlin offer multi-day passes for tourists. I buy my ticket, turn to my left or right where the validating machine is and VALIDATE. I don't mean to be your mother on this one but 40 Euro is 40 Euro, plus think of how much garbage you will receive if someone finds out. If you are interested in seeing more of the city in your time off, these can be a good deal. Depends on where your hotel is and how much walking you want to do. Definatly ask the front desk or a waiter/waitress for offtime activities or use reading material eg. books.
The last items are bicycle(bike) riding/walking. These two can be the healthiest and best ways to see the city, provided you pay attention and the nearby drivers follow traffic symbols. Bikes are available at almost every major rail station and many hotels have them available for rent/free loan or know of a place that has them available. I'm from Denver so biking to work is a very normal thing to do for me.
The red paths painted or stone work are bike lanes and many cities have been good about installing them in major routes. Many pedestrians have been good about getting into the lanes and getting in the way of a bicyclist. Try to stay out of the bike lanes if you are on foot as sometimes the bicyclists don't look for you either. If you hear a bell, that would be a bicyclist telling you to either get out of the way or letting you know where he/she is. I try to stay out of their way as much as possible but sometimes you just get stuck and can't get let them through. I've been fortunate to not get run over. Appologize and let them by as most of them are just like you, trying to get from A to B. Your mother will be proud of you if you wear a helmet and many rental places will provide them with a rental.
An interesting note from Berlin, the Deutche Bahn has gotten into the bike business. I have seen numerous DB bikes for rent around town in all the touristy places. I haven't been in a major city until now so this may be a trial or an expanding program. It looked like the bikes had an electronic lock on the chain but I will investigate this matter and report in the future.
As for walking, it is definatly the cheapest way of moving around a town. You will probably find your restauarant for the evening by walking your neighborhood around your hotel. I stayed near the Charlottenburg station in Berlin and felt safe walking around even with a small red light area outside the station. The barkers for the strip clubs were interesting but are quiet if the club is full of patrons on Friday, Saturday or Sunday night. Monday night - look out. Walking is also a way to stay healthy and walk off all the dinner you ate way too much of or the breakfast buffet that was so filling you shouldn't even think about lunch.
I really need to make these posts smaller, sorry about the length and keep sending in comments or any questions I might be able to answer.
That said, I'll start my blurb on city transportation here in Germany but I think this would be good for most cities in Europe. After an airline commute, most American business folks head straight to the rental counter or a taxi. I covered the rental counter in a previous section. Taxi's in most major European cities are widely available at the airport, major rail points and some attractions like a group of museums (Berlin's Museum Island for example). In Germany, you can find rates posted somewhere within view of the extrior of the taxi, not necessarily posted on the door like NYC but I have seen a few. I haven't taken a taxi here in Germany but I imagine that it is as much a crap shoot as in the US. Some are good, some are bad. I have heard good things about Taxi's in London (the 60 minutes report comes to mind) but I haven't been able to verify this yet. I'll give it a try when I'm there.
Outside of Western Europe however, everything I have read says that you should be extreamly cautious about them. Prauge and Budapest taxi's are notorious about taking tourists for the proverbial "ride." There is a line of thought that you should barter with the taxi driver prior to even getting in the cab. If you speak the language, by all means, give it a try. For english speakers, it may not be worth the hassle if you get a particularly bad driver. If someone is trying to take advantage of you, your best option is to walk away if possible.
The other option that many Americans never try is the mass transit system. Many European cities do have their transit systems running into the early morning hours EXCEPT France!, well Paris at least. I got a bad report yesterday that my co-workers in Paris had to walk back to their hotel after being out until 1AM. Not the best experiance with mass transit as they like driving everywhere. There are even good systems in even medium size cities like Mannheim or tourist areas like Heidelburg. Granted, you may be better off walking in these areas but know where the tram lines are for a faster way to get to a meeting.
Mass transit in Germany usually includes both bus and tram routes. Major cities have some subway systems. Berlin, and I imagine others like Frankfurt and Hamburg, have all 3 networks. Berlin's is massive and extends from Potsdam all the way to Neuenhagen I believe. You can still tell where the wall was and the city has been really good about a small line of cobblestones and markers demarking exactly where the outer wall was. For those who don't know, there was an outer wall, the one with all the graffiti, a deadman zone and then another wall. Much of the wall zone is now being filled in with apartments and such. <<Notes on this later>>
Berlin's system is under constant construction with the major area being Potsdammer Platz, where Hitler's bunker is now under a nearby parking lot unless they removed it. I was amazed at the growth as I was there in 1994 when there was just dirt, dirt, and some rubble piles and a free standing section of Wall. The major transit lines are Charlottenburg to Ostbahnhoff (4 lines each plus others) and a city ring line consisting of 3 to 5 lines. Berlin's maps are confusing as there are 2 of them. One shows the U, for Unterbahn (I know the Unter part is right), system and then an S for Stadtbahn.
The confusion comes in as the maps can overlap on each other so you have to know which one you are looking at. The nasty part is that they can be displayed next to each other in most stations. The best way to tell is to look for "grayed" in areas around Bahnhof Zoo or FriedrichStrasse. The grayed in areas on this map will show the U system. I haven't seen any U system maps with the S system grayed in, they are usually running on top or with the U line. Many stations will have a yellow circle around the station you are at or a red arrow which can definatly help when trying to make a connection. I think most know how what a subway line is so I won't go into that.
Alright, now we come to fares. Many fares are available through the machines at all rail stations. The nice city government of Berlin has issued touch screen machines that are available in the major languages. I believe they did this to eliminate any excuse for tourists to say, "I didn't know what da machine told me". According to my reading material, it's a 40 euro fine to be found by your neighborhood metro politzi (police). You are definatly better off just buying a ticket as a 3 day all area pass is 22 euros. There are 3 areas to the Berlin system called A, B, and C (I know its complicated). Most of the attractions and business points will be in A but if you have to go to Potsdam, that is in C and the Olympic Stadium is in B I believe (my map in front of me is not as extensive as others).
The most common fares are a Point to Point, PTP or a timed usage pass from 90 minutes to a Day Card. In ALL CASES, tickets must be validated when first used, this goes for Day and MultiDay tickets as well. If you don't do this, your neighborhood Euro collector will be more than happy to help you after you paid him (granted he must find you first). If he just validates your ticket at the next stop, consider it a warning and say Vielen Danke.
In the major cities and most smaller ones, it does not pay to do PTP unless it is less than 2 Euros, which I have never seen in my short travels (you'll see why in a minute). There are strap tickets, which are good for a certain number of trips. To use these, you will be given a strip of tickets at the time of purchase. When you want to use the system, tear off a ticket and VALIDATE it. Depending on local rules, you may have to use another ticket to go the opposite direction.
The option I use is the Day Card or Day Pass (Tageskarte). This way, I don't have to mess with validating, knowing zones (unless I wanted to go to a stadium or was being cheap), or messing with a machine late at night. These passes can cost between 5 to 7 euros a day and larger cities like Berlin offer multi-day passes for tourists. I buy my ticket, turn to my left or right where the validating machine is and VALIDATE. I don't mean to be your mother on this one but 40 Euro is 40 Euro, plus think of how much garbage you will receive if someone finds out. If you are interested in seeing more of the city in your time off, these can be a good deal. Depends on where your hotel is and how much walking you want to do. Definatly ask the front desk or a waiter/waitress for offtime activities or use reading material eg. books.
The last items are bicycle(bike) riding/walking. These two can be the healthiest and best ways to see the city, provided you pay attention and the nearby drivers follow traffic symbols. Bikes are available at almost every major rail station and many hotels have them available for rent/free loan or know of a place that has them available. I'm from Denver so biking to work is a very normal thing to do for me.
The red paths painted or stone work are bike lanes and many cities have been good about installing them in major routes. Many pedestrians have been good about getting into the lanes and getting in the way of a bicyclist. Try to stay out of the bike lanes if you are on foot as sometimes the bicyclists don't look for you either. If you hear a bell, that would be a bicyclist telling you to either get out of the way or letting you know where he/she is. I try to stay out of their way as much as possible but sometimes you just get stuck and can't get let them through. I've been fortunate to not get run over. Appologize and let them by as most of them are just like you, trying to get from A to B. Your mother will be proud of you if you wear a helmet and many rental places will provide them with a rental.
An interesting note from Berlin, the Deutche Bahn has gotten into the bike business. I have seen numerous DB bikes for rent around town in all the touristy places. I haven't been in a major city until now so this may be a trial or an expanding program. It looked like the bikes had an electronic lock on the chain but I will investigate this matter and report in the future.
As for walking, it is definatly the cheapest way of moving around a town. You will probably find your restauarant for the evening by walking your neighborhood around your hotel. I stayed near the Charlottenburg station in Berlin and felt safe walking around even with a small red light area outside the station. The barkers for the strip clubs were interesting but are quiet if the club is full of patrons on Friday, Saturday or Sunday night. Monday night - look out. Walking is also a way to stay healthy and walk off all the dinner you ate way too much of or the breakfast buffet that was so filling you shouldn't even think about lunch.
I really need to make these posts smaller, sorry about the length and keep sending in comments or any questions I might be able to answer.
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Too many to count, too few to mention.
Posts: 1,480
Very nice thread!
Anyway, regarding the car rental issue: It depends entirely on the car rental company what the minimum age needs to be. In Germany, for example, I started driving rental cars whenever we are there during the summer (we rent a car for about 1.5 months, usually from Budget or Europcar) without any issues whatsoever - the car category we usually rent is a Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, or BMW 5-series (but never anything larger, or smaller
)
Anyway, regarding the car rental issue: It depends entirely on the car rental company what the minimum age needs to be. In Germany, for example, I started driving rental cars whenever we are there during the summer (we rent a car for about 1.5 months, usually from Budget or Europcar) without any issues whatsoever - the car category we usually rent is a Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, or BMW 5-series (but never anything larger, or smaller
)
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN/COS
Programs: CO, HH, LH, F9
Posts: 202
Public transportation in Holland
I must absolutly appologize for my previous post. It was way too long and could have been a book in and of itself. I promise this one will be smaller.
I am amazed at how complicated the tram maps are here in Amsterdam. The lines are farely extensive but are not overlayed on a map easily at the tram station. I purchased a map at the info station in the Centraal station here in Amsterdam for 2 euro and have used it extensively during my stay. The map I purchased has been more valuable to me as I do not know any streets and it does give the rail lines inside the roadways on the map.
I have noticed two big main areas to Amsterdam, the inner city by the Dam and Neuwmarkt and the business area at the World Trade Center to the south. Both areas have a train station but the Zuid trainstation is smaller. Check with either the Dutch train website www.ns.nl or the country you are going to web site. The Dutch train site does have an English mirror site that is nearly as effective as the Deutsche Bahn site. My one small problem is that seat reservations cannot be made through the automated machines at either Centraal or Zuid. This is probably indicative of the automated systems that the Dutch have. I would recommend making reservations earlier than day of departer if possible due to this circumstance. I often don't have a seat reservation until a couple of hours with DB.
Back to the tram system. The tram system in Amsterdam is a bit complicated as tram lines can run together and use the same set of track. Traffic jams also back up the tram system as the traffic has to clear for the train to move through. I watched a nasty one last at Centraal station for 20 minutes with cars, taxis and trams backed up and getting nowhere fast. If you elect to use the tram map at the station, know what area you are going to. The centraal zone does contain most of the tourist areas but the zone stops right around the City Ring parkway. This means that you need at least a 2 zone ticket to get to the WTC-Zuid train station or a multi zone ticket to get out further from the center. Another powerful option is a bicycle.
The bicycle is as much a symbol of Amsterdam as Rembrant paintings or a cannibis leaf, the later maybe more dubious. Auto traffic is absolutly nuts from an American standpoint. Cars drive in the roadways and aslo on train tracks and park in the bicycle lains. With a map, most of the central areas of the city are accessable within a half an hour after getting your bearings. My one problem has been more with pedestrians in the bike lanes rather than than cars opening doors right before I pass them. I do wear a bike helmet as I don't want a trip to the hospital for going "Endo" (end over end). A helmet won't stop it but it will definatly limit the brain damage. There is much more bicycle traffic than auto traffic and I often have had problems parking a bike.
I would like a special note for those who are considering bringing a high value bike here. DON'T! The junkies here steal anything of value excluding an old bike that has two good locks. The best combination is a firm metal chain lock and a rear wheel lock. Most bikes rented will come with both locks but most people who rent are not wearing helmets so I assume that they may not be available. Junkies also have been causing problems and expect all restrooms within the central zone to be customer only, even if you have to pay. I watched a female bartender toss out a Spanish/Turkish person who wasn't a customer for trying to use the bathroom. Considering the bar was just between the Neuwmarkt and the red light zone, this is an unfortunate necessity. The bar was quite nice though.
Another note: Make sure that the coffee shop you enter is non-smoking (this applies to canibis). Use your sense of smell on this one but avoid any shop that looks fishy. Most bars I've seen do not allow smoking due to a small crackdown on the potheads and confining them to certain areas. Public smoking is not allowed and coffee shops are only allowed to have smaller amounts on hand for sale (1 kg is the limit I believe).
Well, looks like the length limit went up in smoke (ok, that one was bad).
I am amazed at how complicated the tram maps are here in Amsterdam. The lines are farely extensive but are not overlayed on a map easily at the tram station. I purchased a map at the info station in the Centraal station here in Amsterdam for 2 euro and have used it extensively during my stay. The map I purchased has been more valuable to me as I do not know any streets and it does give the rail lines inside the roadways on the map.
I have noticed two big main areas to Amsterdam, the inner city by the Dam and Neuwmarkt and the business area at the World Trade Center to the south. Both areas have a train station but the Zuid trainstation is smaller. Check with either the Dutch train website www.ns.nl or the country you are going to web site. The Dutch train site does have an English mirror site that is nearly as effective as the Deutsche Bahn site. My one small problem is that seat reservations cannot be made through the automated machines at either Centraal or Zuid. This is probably indicative of the automated systems that the Dutch have. I would recommend making reservations earlier than day of departer if possible due to this circumstance. I often don't have a seat reservation until a couple of hours with DB.
Back to the tram system. The tram system in Amsterdam is a bit complicated as tram lines can run together and use the same set of track. Traffic jams also back up the tram system as the traffic has to clear for the train to move through. I watched a nasty one last at Centraal station for 20 minutes with cars, taxis and trams backed up and getting nowhere fast. If you elect to use the tram map at the station, know what area you are going to. The centraal zone does contain most of the tourist areas but the zone stops right around the City Ring parkway. This means that you need at least a 2 zone ticket to get to the WTC-Zuid train station or a multi zone ticket to get out further from the center. Another powerful option is a bicycle.
The bicycle is as much a symbol of Amsterdam as Rembrant paintings or a cannibis leaf, the later maybe more dubious. Auto traffic is absolutly nuts from an American standpoint. Cars drive in the roadways and aslo on train tracks and park in the bicycle lains. With a map, most of the central areas of the city are accessable within a half an hour after getting your bearings. My one problem has been more with pedestrians in the bike lanes rather than than cars opening doors right before I pass them. I do wear a bike helmet as I don't want a trip to the hospital for going "Endo" (end over end). A helmet won't stop it but it will definatly limit the brain damage. There is much more bicycle traffic than auto traffic and I often have had problems parking a bike.
I would like a special note for those who are considering bringing a high value bike here. DON'T! The junkies here steal anything of value excluding an old bike that has two good locks. The best combination is a firm metal chain lock and a rear wheel lock. Most bikes rented will come with both locks but most people who rent are not wearing helmets so I assume that they may not be available. Junkies also have been causing problems and expect all restrooms within the central zone to be customer only, even if you have to pay. I watched a female bartender toss out a Spanish/Turkish person who wasn't a customer for trying to use the bathroom. Considering the bar was just between the Neuwmarkt and the red light zone, this is an unfortunate necessity. The bar was quite nice though.
Another note: Make sure that the coffee shop you enter is non-smoking (this applies to canibis). Use your sense of smell on this one but avoid any shop that looks fishy. Most bars I've seen do not allow smoking due to a small crackdown on the potheads and confining them to certain areas. Public smoking is not allowed and coffee shops are only allowed to have smaller amounts on hand for sale (1 kg is the limit I believe).
Well, looks like the length limit went up in smoke (ok, that one was bad).

