As you probably read in Seat 2A's trip report, I was in Paris this weekend on a $20 BA special. His report is so excellent that I'm not even going to try to write one. However, my parents are going to Paris in February and asked me to write up some thoughts to make their trip easier.

Please keep in mind that my parents are wonderful people but haven't traveled outside the US but once and my notes were written with them in mind. Nevertheless, there might be a few tidbits in here that are useful to some FT'ers so I thought I'd share them.

eastwest
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You will probably arrive at Satellite 5 in CDG. That's the British Airways area. Just follow everyone and you'll go up and down a loooong moving walkway. (it's the longest one I have ever seen.) Keep following everyone and at the end of the walk way you will make a right and go down a hall filled with duty free shops. Then you'll end up at immigration. They glanced at my passport and handed it back. I had to ask for a stamp in my passport. The guy stamped it and handed it back without any fuss.

After immigration you'll go down a moving walkway in an outdoor tube (rather odd) and you�ll end up at baggage claim. At baggage claim there is a British Airways baggage counter. They are French but since you are a BA customer, I guess they are obligated to help you. They speak good English and if you ask them how to get to the BA ticket counter � they can provide you with directions. This will be important after you clear customs. Anyway--I didn�t have any bags to check so I just kept going to customs. The two people there were busy having a conversation so I just kept walking right on through and no one stopped me or said anything. Easy enough.

After customs, follow the directions that you were given to the BA ticket counter. If you get lost (which is easy to do) there are information booths through out the airport manned by people who speak English. They vary in helpfulness but they are a good place to start.

Once you are at the BA ticket counter walk to your right (your right as you are facing the BA ticket counter and watch to your right. Kind of tucked away (but you will see them if you look) you will find a bank of elevators. On one of the lower floors you will find some buses. You want to take bus #2. It�s free. If you aren�t sure that you are at the right place or on the right bus here is a tip. Bus #2 goes to the RER station. (The train station.) You can ask if this bus goes to the RER or train station. If it does, you are in the right spot. If it doesn�t, you aren�t. For further clarification, I heard the RER station referred to as any of the following: the train station, the RER station, the Metro, and the train to downtown Paris.

Once you are on the bus, it�s maybe a 5 or 8 minute ride. You will be dropped off at a medium sized bus depot. It�s the first and only stop on the bus, so you can�t go wrong. To your left will be the Ibis hotel. It�s 85 Euro a night and not a bad place to hang your hat. You will probably be jet lagged and tired and the Ibis is awful convenient. There are several other hotels in the area, including the Hilton, Novatel, and Sofatel. I was told (although I have no way of verifying) that these others hotel start around 150 Euro and go up from there. Judging from the Ibis, I would suppose that is right. So stay at the Ibis at least for the first night. The Ibis is clean and safe and the staff speak English. it�s kind of like a Motel 6. The rooms are tiny by American standards but it�s spacious enough for 2. There is a breakfast buffet offered for 6 Euro and I would recommend passing on it.

I dropped my stuff off at the Ibis and had a shower and hit the streets. You may decide to do that right away or the next morning. In any case, as you walk out of the main lobby of the Ibis you make a left and you will walk into the RER station. Make another left and you will end up at the ticket counter. I bought a two day pass good for unlimited subway use for a little over 20 Euro.

This station is served by the blue line and it�s easy to go the right way. Just look for downtown Paris signs and follow them to the right train. There are two Charles DeGaulle airport stations. It�s important to remember that you are at the one BEFORE the last one. The other CDG stop is the last stop on the line for the blue line. It�s easy to get lost. Keep track of yourself and where you are.

So I�d recommend riding the subway down to the St. Michael (they pronounce it Saint Michelle) stop. It�s near Notre Dame and the river and probably a good place to start. It�s a dozen or so stops from where you get on. Some trains don�t stop at every stop. I am sure there is a reason or method but I don�t know what it is. Pay attention! Keep track of where you are on your subway map. The announcements are in French only (for the most part) and people aren�t particularly helpful or nice and there isn�t a lighted display of where you are or what the next stop is or anything like that.

You can see from the map that following the river Seine (or at least using it as a navigation point) is very helpful. I walked for miles and miles and miles, but I don�t imagine you all will do that. I saw some buses that stop periodically all over town that you might like. They are called Open Paris or something like that. I guess you pay 21 Euro and get a two day pass. They are double deckers with the top deck having no roof. They go all over town and you can get on and off at your pleasure where ever you want. They look like they would be a good deal for both of you. You can just walk up to one when you see it anywhere and buy a pass if you don�t have one. The drivers mostly speak decent English and are willing to help. (That alone is worth it�s weight in gold.)

Near Notre Dame kind of tucked away on the other side of the river is the �Latin Quarter.� I highly recommend it. It�s a collection of narrow streets and alley�s that are full of shops and restaurants. There are several reasonably priced Greek restaurants there selling the most marvelous looking kabobs. I really recommend this area. It�s very European. I like how European restaurants have the menus posted in the window and how they often have a display of what they sell. Anyway, it�s a short walk (less than a quarter mile) from Notre Dame. Just head across the river and it�s on your right hand side. It is a bit tricky to find so either wander until you find it or ask someone. Try to ask cops or someone official. I found them to be more helpful than people on the street.

A few other random thoughts. Every word of French that you can speak will be helpful. People are rather rude here. If you don�t push and shove with the rest of them � you�ll be left behind. It�s not as bad as Asia, but it�s noticably different from America. People don�t respect lines as much and especially on the Subway they will jockey for position.

Modify your shower. Take the handset/nozzle thing apart from the hose. Find the water restrictor. Remove it. Replace the handset/nozzle. Your shower will be much better. I do this everywhere I go outside of the USA. :-)

French bakeries are really good. Try a hot croissant. There is a bakery right inside the train station next to your hotel. That�s why I say don�t eat the buffet. Just head to the bakery and buy yourself a hot croissant. They are good with cheese or chocolate in them too.

Remember that you won�t get any ice in your drinks unless you ask. If you ask for ice people will often be snotty. Your choice. I generally choose to drink without ice. It�s just not worth the hassle.

Meat here is drastically undercooked. If you order rare or medium rare � it will be steak tartare! If you order well done, it will be about medium by US standards. Also people will look down their noses at you if you order things well done Just be prepared.

Drinks are expensive. Bottled water is around 2 Euros and cokes are about the same. I�d carry a water bottle around that you filled at the hotel if you don�t mind the weight.

I have no idea how taxi�s work. I didn�t take any. I was told to be careful to avoid being ripped off by them.

The Eiffel tower is awesome. Ride the elevator up. You can go to the first level which has stores and food and a post office and is pretty neat. You can go higher up to the second level and it is cool too. Then you have to change elevators (or lifts) and you will be put into a much smaller elevator and go straight up for hundreds of feet to the tip top of the tower. It�s really cool! If you don�t like heights however, I wouldn�t go up to the third floor. The elevator shoots straight up and I could see how some people wouldn�t like it. The view is amazing though and there is a platform that you can get out and walk around on. Even if you don�t go to the top, you should at least go to the first and second floors. They aren�t nearly as high and have a much �safer� feel because they are all fenced in etc.

Pay attention around the Eiffel tower. There are very aggressive vendors. Just ignoring them is probably best.

Kids will approach you and ask if you speak English. If you respond affirmatively they will hand you a card asking for money under some pretense. Just say no and walk away. Don�t give it to them. It�s a scam. You won�t be helping them if you do.

The Louvre is amazing. I can�t recommend it enough. It�s got to be the best museum in the world. The place is really overwhelming � but in a good way. It�s easy to find the Mona Lisa. It�s at the Denon exhibit and you can just follow the signs. Paul and Shorty said it was really underwhelming to see it in person, but I didn�t think so. I had to try not to cry when I looked at it because I have wanted to see it for so long and then I finally had my chance. I thought it was marvelous. Be sure to see the Egypt stuff, too. And all the Christian stuff, and all of the sculpture and the throne of King Louis and all that stuff. Wow! There are lots of naked people in sculpture and in paintings but it isn�t dirty. I�ll be they wouldn�t show some of it in Utah though. Oh well, their loss.

I didn�t have time to visit the Museum de Orsay, but I would go there next time I am here. It�s near the Louvre and Notre Dame (near being relative, but it was within walking distance for me) and it has lots of impressionist work. Degas, Renior, and Van Gogh. There is a large collection of Modigliani there too. I like his paintings. He painted around the turn of the century so he is somewhat modern but his portrait style is very unique and I like how he does the eyes.

There is also a Picasso/Mattisse museum that I am sorry I didn�t get to see.

Some people were nice and some weren�t. Many of them speak at least some English and trying to speak French will make them much happier. Then they will switch to English and be nicer. Over all, I can see how the French have a repuatation for rudeness, though. However, I wouldn�t let that stop me. While I still think that Bali and Juneau are the two best places I have ever been � I think Paris is arguably the most beautiful city in the world. It�s rather dirty and the people are rude but looking past those things � this place is really neat. The buildings, and the museums, and the old, old bridges (some date back to the 1500�s) are sometimes breathtaking.

What a good son .

lala

I recently took my children (12b and 16g) to see Paris and Amsterdam for the first time. We also did the standard tourist things. Notre Dame, Eiffel Tower, etc. Musee Orsay is wonderful, as is the Louve. Try going to Sacre Coure (poor spelling!) -0 the view is spectacular!. Try climbing up to the top of Notre Dame. Also climb to the top of the Arc de Tromphe - 264 steps, but another wonderful view - especially at night. The view of the Champ de Elyssess at night is also special. One thing that the kids noticed was all the grafitti in Paris, and the lack of it in Amsterdam.

Just curious if this was your first trip abroad?

goofy UBB coding. not sure what's going on. (jet lag maybe?)

[This message has been edited by eastwest (edited 12-10-2002).]

Nope, I used to live in Southeast Asia and I've been to about 20 countries now.

edited to fix UBB coding error

Your parents will be well served by this guide, eastwest. So will I and anyone else who's never been Paris and wants an everyday down to earth easy to read starter on what to expect at CDG and Paris. Thanks!


[This message has been edited by Seat 2A (edited 12-12-2002).]

Thanks for the "quick, simple, can't screw it up" guide to Paris. It will make highlighting things to do for people eaiser.

Great job.

I was wondering the same thing.


You must be having a laugh!?


What an intriguing �guide� � I think it displays a serious lack of judgement and a somehow na�ve view of the world.

Makes me wonder why your parents feel the need to leave the cosy USA, where everyone is polite, there are no beggars in the street and - god forbid - no one ever tries to scam you. Also, and I know this sounds crazy, but Taxis work like everywhere else in the world: attract attention, enter, sit down, indicate direction, pay, exit. Your parents (or yourself) won�t get pregnant / kidnapped / ransomed / shipped to the colonies, unless they specifically ask for it and the meter is running.

I am also shocked that you describe people as not speaking English (I assume you mean American) � this is quite clearly amazing that in a foreign country people could be allowed to speak something else than good ol� American.

I think your parents should stay in Niceville USA (population: 2 + you when visiting) and enjoy some lemonade and pie (which for $20 means almost a year�s supply at 1900 prices).

For reference, the Quartier Latin�s Greek restaurants are amongst the worst, most touristy in Paris (i.e. only a totally na�ve traveller would go, so no wonder you rushed there), the tube station is called St Michel (not Michael) and like everywhere else in the World (read, outside of Niceville USA), there are rude people and scam artists. There is a small town in the USA, I think they call it New York, where I read in my local gazette that these things happen occasionally.

I think they don�t need so much of a �how to survive in Paris until the flights land back home� guide, but more of a �how best to discover the city for first timers� guide, which no doubt is a readily available commodity.

As a side note, my thanks for providing me with laughing material for a week, most notably with this quote (concerning the Louvre): �There are lots of naked people in sculpture and in paintings but it isn�t dirty�

Thanks again and keep up the good work.

***

Edited (at 8.30AM) to add: I don�t really mean to be rude to you and do understand the audience you are targeting with your notes (i.e. not frequent travellers) but that doesn�t excuse the naivety that your comments exude, nor does it explains why your parents would need to be assisted to the extent that not finding ice in one�s drink could be treated as an issue.

I think that there is a huge difference between people who don�t travel often and people who are expecting to find a carbon copy of home wherever they go. The latter should stay home.

[This message has been edited by Canista (edited 12-11-2002).]

BRAVO Canista !

I agree with you totally. It seems as if the original poster wants to visit different places but not experience them. As a very frequent traveler to France and especially Paris I couldn't disagree more with most of the comments about the French people. Once again we hear the old familiar refrain about the rudeness of the French. How wold you feel if someone walked up to you in the US and started speaking in French, Italian, Chinese etc and expected you to understand. My most important tip to friends going to Paris for the first time is to learn a few very basic French words and phrases. At the very least Bonjour, Bonsoir and Merci. That can get you a long way. Also a simple Parlez vous Anglais ? will 9 times out of 10 get a very warm welcome in English in return. As for the pushing and shoving issue maybe it is because I live in NYC where there truly is pushing and shoving but in Paris I have never found this to be true. The pace of life might be faster than in smalltown USA but compared to most major cities it is a stroll in the jardin ! To compare Paris to Asia (where there really is a personal space problem) is absurd.

As with any foreign country there is some amount of accomodation to be made. For instance the ice issue. I love my glass full of ice but in Europe I make due. Not only to blend in a little more but also to try something different. My advice is go with the flow or as they say.... When in Rome...

[This message has been edited by TMOTEE (edited 12-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TMOTEE (edited 12-11-2002).]

What a sad way to post about a great city full of friendly people. Parisians are extremely helpful, they love their city and love it when others enjoy it too. I hope people planning to visit Paris don't rely on this report alone because it certainly doesn't do the city justice. Next time stay for a week, you won't feel as rushed and might enjoy it.

Canista,

Yes, but -- not everyone has the benefit of coming from a certain background and knowing certain things. Cut a bit of slack to those different from you.

I am always amazed by the number of times I encounter English-speaking tourists in Europe who walk into a shop and speak English as though they were in Niceville, USA. While it's not realistic to expect one to speak the language of every country visited, not even politely asking if one speaks English (in any language) is pretty rude, imo. (Given that it's typically combined with speaking English like one would at home to a native speaker.)

[Edited for content.]

[This message has been edited by SMessier (edited 12-11-2002).]

My friend, I think you got mixed-up reading the above thread.

If anyone should �Cut a bit of slack to those different from [oneself]�, it ain't me, dude.

One�s background or education are no excuse / justification to share bigoted and short-sighted views and, worse still, to pass these as being in any way helpful.

Again, I respect this poster but feel sadden that someone would have such views on any country, let alone France.

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