So..to add to the list of things to help out Eastwest's parents on their trip...

Rick Steve's guides ROCK! His maps however, aren't the best. I really like pop-out maps for travelling. I find them at Barnes and Noble bookstores. They are very compact, have all the major sights and the metro lines are all nicely outlined.

Buy a museum pass (carte musée)if you're planning to visit more than a couple of museums. It will save you money, and more importantly..you don't have to stand in line! Rick Steves also put out a museum guide called Mona Winks that will help guide you through some of the more important pieces in the major museums, and explain to you why they are so important. If you like Monét, there's a great little museum (not included in the museum pass, but definitely worth the separate admission) called the Marmottan.

For what your son paid for the IBIS, you can likely get a 4 star hotel in the center of Paris on priceline.com There are also plenty of reasonably priced nice independent hotels that are centrally located (just look in your Rick Steves guide..can you tell that I'm a fan?) that will save you a metro ride at the end of the day. The Rue Cler area in the 7th arrondissement is a nice central decently priced part of town.

Learn a little French, keep a supply of your hotel business cards on you, and carry a phrasebook and pencil with you everywhere. I know enough French to get by, but my "american" accent throws them off, and its sometimes just easier for the taxi drivers if I write stuff down.

And most importantly...READ READ READ everything you can get your hands on about the city before you go. It's all so overwhelming when you get there that unless you've done a little prep work, you're likely to miss out on something really great.

I didn't find the French any ruder than people of any other background who have to deal with silly tourist questions all day. Especially if the silly tourists haven't bothered to learn even how to say please and thank you in the native language.

Europe is very different from the US. Embrace it, learn from it and you'll find that you're a better person for it.

I'm French and I make a living selling bridges to gullible tourists. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Old prejudices die hard it seems.

Wow! I had no idea this thread would cause so much controversy. While I am tempted to respond post by post, I don't think I will. Obviously some people understood where I was coming from and others didn't so I don't want to "continue" the US/Franco war. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I do want to make a couple of points though.

This was written for my parents! I decided to post it here in case anyone else might find it useful, but I never intended it to be an inclusive description of Paris.

1. I was there for 48 hours. That does not give enough time to see much of the city or make accurate judgements about it. I had a smashing time and would love nothing more than to go back for at least a week. One of these days, I will.

2. Even though my folks are from "Niceville, USA" they have just as much right to visit Paris as any of the more cosmopolitan of us FT'ers.

My folks have little experience in big cities anywhere (let alone cities where English isn't widely spoken.) Consequently

1. They need to be warned that Taxi's may "rip them off." Frankly, they've ridden cabs maybe 5 or 6 times in their lives. And they've never ridden them in a country where English isn't the main language. I didn't say that "All French Cabbies are dishonest" or anything of the sort. I reminded them to be careful. That's good advice in any big city -- American cities included.

2. Comments that some of you have seemingly found inane are actually there for a reason. Why are you so quick to judge me for them?

1. My folks feel that it is a real privledge to go see France. They are excited and nervous and don't want to "screw up." They have heard many stories from me and others about "Ugly American" travelers. They don't want to be ones themselves. So I told them ahead of time about somethings that I know will throw them for a loop. Things like how meat is cooked, how ice is used (or not used) and how people push and shove on the subway. These comments weren't meant to be derisive about Paris -- they were just facts that my folks should be aware of.

2. My parents are very conservative. You can make fun of them if you must -- but it's really unwarranted. They will be surprised by the amount of nudity in paintings and sculpture on display. It may be uncomfortable for them. But that's good. It will expand their horizons and that's really the best thing about traveling -- isn't it? I just wanted to prepare them for what they would see. I brought back a lovely book from the Louvre and that along with a subway map and my comments will help them enjoy Paris.Anyone who has been there can certainly agree that there is much to enjoy in that wonderful city.

Thank you to those who have posts have asked for moderation, reason, and understanding. Those who have posted negatively, I have no ill will towards you and trust that misunderstanding was the root cause.

Your Flyertalk Friend,
-eastwest

Parisians are mostly extremely helpful. I got lost walking from the Louvre to Notre Dame, and a couple of young Parisian students not only stopped to answer my question for directions, they took the time out to actually walk WITH me over to the Notre Dame!!!

Great post. Don't mind the negative interpretations. Some people jump to conclusions prematurely.

Also, the Louvre is free on the 4th Sunday of each month, IIRC correctly. I got to see the Mona Lisa that way http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Also, recommend that your folks try the train to Lyon if they get a chance. Lyon is renowned for its cuisine, and is a great place to check out because it's only 2 hours by rail.

My comments were only based on what you wrote and, more importantly, on the initial reactions your report generated. There was no intention to offend.

I still believe your comments are very skewed towards a more defensive way to travel, rather than maybe a more positive and curious one, but let's leave it at that. As someone I appreciate once said...

But so what?!!

[This message has been edited by Canista (edited 12-17-2002).]

With the exception of Mavrommatis, which is, IMHO, one of the very good Greek restaurants in Paris: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Glad to see this thread has settled down. Nothing like a veiled apology to "clear" up a few misunderstandings although I'm not sure how the poor Welsh got dragged into it (one too many wins at Parc des Princes perhaps). Good to see also that the old "some of my best friends are…..." chestnut is alive and kicking.

I would like to address one misconception regarding my reference to eastwest's parents being from Utah. As Utah is a stronghold for the Mormon church, I was simply raising the POSSIBILITY that they MAY belong to a different church to others on FT, and thus posters differing ideas of what constitutes “acceptable” nudity should be respected not ridiculed. To construe these comments as meaning that Utah residents are “provincial” and “clueless” requires a rather large leap of imagination. I’ll leave such mental gymnastics to those who come up with patronising monikers such as “Niceville” and “Smallsville” for any town outside New York. IMHO a state that successfully hosted a modern Olympics (particularly with the security logistics involved post 9/11) could never be perceived as “clueless”.

One irony in view of the thread’s subject matter is that two of the politest, most restrained responses were from French posters. This should help lay that particular stereotype to bed although I’m sure we’ll continue to encounter rude individuals on our travels in France, Ireland, UK and the US (and should feel free to mention them in our trip reports here).

Anyway enough from moi, let's not detract further from eastwest's magnificent report.

Well folks, if I may chime in briefly.

Paris is a great, friendly city. It is warm and inviting and intimidating to first-time visitors.

Our single language mentality (or curriculum) hinders us in communication with others who are not fluent in our language. Because of the curriculum problem of our schools and the lack of the domestic chance to practice. we often are timid about using the few foreign words we may know or resorting to sign language when necessary.

Successful travel is, as 2A so aptly implies, a learned experience. EW was attempting to convey this to his parents.

As a transplanted "Right Coaster - of, cough, cough Brooklyn birth", I was shocked the first time a "Left Coaster" talked to me in an elevator. I learned that this was OK, just as it was OK to push on the NY Subway, shove back in GUM in Moscow, fling people aside when boarding a plane in Rome or Asia, and use my right hand politely in Asia.

These are cultural norms that are location dependent. It also was a shock in 1968 to visit some friends in SLC and have to BYOB and join a private club.

Without trying to pontificate, let's cut the guy some slack, even though some of his comments might have been naive in some of our views. BTW: The French are some of the nicest people one can meet, especially if one trys to butcher their language.

I, for one, want to keep learning. This is one reason that I spend time on FT.

PS: The sneaker comment illustrates how easy it is to recognize a U.S. resident in Europe.

>>SHe then went on a further rant about how rude everybody was in Europe. And we wonder why many people of the world hate us.>>

Yada, yada, yada, yada. Tell me how many people behave like that? And it's not just Americans by the way. It can be "any" nationality.

<<The sneaker comment illustrates how easy it is to recognize a U.S. resident in Europe.>>

Mmmmm. Actually FYI many Europeans wear sneakers.

>>Parisians are mostly extremely helpful. >>

Please do not "generalise". Some Parisians are helpful; others are not.

<<I don’t really mean to be rude to you and do understand the audience you are targeting with your notes (i.e. not frequent travellers) but that doesn’t excuse the naivety that your comments exude, nor does it explains why your parents would need to be assisted to the extent that not finding ice in one’s drink could be treated as an issue.>>

Give the poor guy a break please. And yes for Americans no ice in their cokes is a big deal. While for me, having ice in my coke was weird. To each his own. Nothing wrong with that. He meant nothing bad. Some nasty comments on this Board are based on prejudice.

>>People don’t respect lines as much and especially on the Subway they will jockey for position.<,

Eastwest people jockey for position in any subway that's full. Just teasing. By the way I think your parents should eat French food in Paris. It's a shame to schlep all the way to Paris and eat Greek or Mid Eastern food. You can eat that anywhere. Don't forget the fabulous bread they have too. I disagree that they should spend 1st night at the Ibis in some lost out of the way place; better to go straight to town. That is just my humble opinion.

>>[QUOTE]Originally posted by SMessier:
[B] I am always amazed by the number of times I encounter English-speaking tourists in Europe who walk into a shop and speak English as though they were in Niceville, USA. >>

Mmmmm if these people do not speak any French, what language are they supposed to speak pray-tell? English is the international language of the world. When I went to Japan, Greece and Hungary I automatically tried to speak in English, though English is not my mother tongue. I do not speak Japanese, Greek or Hungarian. In Hungary I would also try German which often worked.