Just returned from Egypt and had the most wonderful time. I think that perhaps for some people it is better to travel with a tour group. We had absolutely no problems until three of us decided to take a very short horse and buggy ride. Seems like we set ourselves up to be taken advantage of. Fortunately, there was a tourist policeman walking by who we motioned over and although he probably could not understand us it was enough to change the tune of the buggy driver. Our guide later told us we should have gotten his buggy number and he would have reported the driver. I loved Egypt and the trip was fantastic. But, I am happy we were with a group of 7 and the guide who was constantly taking care of us. Besides the amazing sights, I found the Egyptian people very kind and to have a great sense of humor.

Danial, great travelogue, in the finest Joycean style. Have you considered writing a book about your experiences?

>>I've felt more safe in what we would call '3rd world' countries than I did walking around New York or Detroit.<<

With all due respect, I have walked in New York at 3 am and felt safe. Crime is way down there. And in regards to Detroit, I used to go a lot on business there. As far as I recall, there was no where to walk to anyway. Just stayed in my hotel room.

I agree. NYC crime has gone way down. Besides, the type of crime is usually mugging. In Egypt, it is mostly trickery, especially on unsuspecting tourist. Do not get conned, especially by the so-call tourist ambassadors that hunt you down as you exit the airport.

I must say that, while this report is very informative, I had a completely opposite experience in Egypt over Spring Break with a group from my college. We went to a debate tournament at the American University, and also stayed an extra week to do tourist-type things.

I had an amazing trip -- from wandering the streets and bazaars to bargaining for taxi's and even for an ISIC card, it was all fun. Yes, the touts are there, and they will take you if they can -- but, thats part of the package that you sign up for by going to a developing country. As in America, and elsewhere, everyone is out to make a living in any way they can -- and American college kids gleefully throwing around dollars make as good a target as any.

If you do go, some tips...

-Go to the Pyramids early in the morning; we went at 5:30am after coming off the overnight train from Luxor and were able to bribe the morning guard to let us climb up the third pyramid. Plus, very few things beat racing the rising sun through the desert as you approach the site from the backside (the guides will take you this way, because the main entrance is closed before 8).

-Know when to bargain; in my experience, the people in our group who had the best time remembered not to sweat the small things -- if you get charged an extra 5L by a driver, remember that its 70 cents! People in our group who fought for every last EGP ended up getting in fights and feeling upset about their experiences.

Hope everyone enjoys their trips!

744

Sorry you didn't enjoy your trip. I think it's a remarkable city, and had a brilliant trip there last November which I talked about here- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182221 - it ain't Disneyland but it is the real world!

Wow.. sorry to hear about your trip. Egypt is certainly an experience.. good or bad can really depend on how patient you are.. the constant hassle from touts and requests for baksheesh are certainly annoying at best but usually they will not become threatening... to them you are jus a walking dollar sign. My wife and I went in July last year when it seemed there were no tourists and had a mixed time (the only place we have become sick from the food, and we were careful of what we eat).. we hired a driver for the day and we were the only ones at the pyramids in Dashur (the bent pyramid) and even the crowds at Giza were nearly nonexistent. Sure we got scammed ($100 for 4 papyrus that I could have gotten for $25), and USD$20 for the buggy ride around the pyramids.

What is the best rate anyone has been able to haggle for a taxi into town/Conrad? Last year was 40LE, this year 45LE was the best they would accept. $7.25 for two people I suppose isn't too bad.

Out of town you could get it down to 20LE if you let a couple go by, so I guess 30LE for the way in? Or 2LE on the bus...

I paid $100 for 4 as well, perhaps the same store?

There were many japanese tourist that was snapping up papyrus like there was no tomorrow. I was there during Ramadan last year, not the best time to visit, but the weather was good.

How's the Conrad?

Just wondering if everyone's noticed that the original trip report in this thread is over 4 years old at this point - it would be interesting to know if the situation for tourists has changed given all the changes in our "traveling environment".

Alec in PVD

AlecM,

I "brought the thread back" as I rarely think there is a need to reinvent the wheel and like to see feedback in one place rather than multiple threads. I am also traveling to Egypt this December and was curious if others felt the same way as the original poster.

The original poster IMO did not seem prepared for the "hassle" he experienced in Egypt. As evidenced by the responses, getting hassled seems to be par for the course BUT knowing what to expect is extremely important in my enjoyment of traveling to a new destination.

Its all about managing expectations.

Willie

So many got on Danial for posting his unpleasant, to say the least, experience. First of all, if you book and pay for an AC car and they show up and say, "its this or nothing, pay up", that is just plain stealing - in any culture. And, I'm glad he posted, so I know now to make sure, if I do go, to take a well-guided tour, and not to venture off. He did admit this was his own fault. Thank you, Danial.

Plus, I wouldn't want to get taken and sold into slavery, because, you know, they do that there if they get you alone

oh, p.s., did the Conrad have a special Cairo teddy bear on the bed? Or maybe a camel instead of a duck on the bath edge?

I can see everyone's perspective - but...

Many peoples' culture include a lack of tolerance for directness - they will tell you what they think you want to hear, as they consider being direct rude.

Some are fatalistic - "Si Dios lo manda" in Latin America is the same as "inshallah" - let it be God's will. That incoudes a cook preparing fresh food over reoaing flames, which lick a boat cowling where an oxygen tank is lying, unfastened... if God wills it, there's nothing he can do to protect himself, and if God doesn't want him to die, it doesn't matter what he does, anyway.

Put the two together - you have a timed event to make, you ask the driver if you wil lget there on time (in Cairo's nasty traffic,) and the driver will reply "inshallah". He just can't bring himself to say "not bloody likely, mate!"

Relax, let your blood pressure normalize, do a little contingency planning and give yourself lots of extra time. Realize things are more... "flexible" than you are used to at home.

Many places are rife with poverty - desperate people will use depserate measures. When they come into contact with people who are naive and seem to be as rich as Croesus, they will do what they can to separate that person from some of their money.

And there are, of course, professional cons - the "papyrus institute" and "carpet school" are common ones that separate tourists from some of their money, but in fact, not separate from ALL of even an important part of you money, like Enron or some other white collar criminals have done in the "first world."

Realize - papyrii are everywhere, cranked out like "by the numbers" paintings. Look around, get an idea of reasonable prices, bargain a little - it means you care and aren't a total fool - then buy what you like.

A "carpet shcool" isn't training children for a lifetime career - children have the smallest hands and can do the finest work. If you want that lovely finely-woven carpet, don't kid yourself, you are patronizing child labor, and today's fine weaver will likely be tomorrow's taxi driver, for whom an extra 20 Egyptian Pounds means he can feed his family better today, and it is perhaps less than you would pay for one drink.

Egpyt's wonders are incredible, and the culture has ancient roots, even though it is splitting apart at the seams. Do some research, make goals, use reputable agencies, be open to friendships - and realize anyone who approaches you openly on the street as an old friend, here or at home, is highly suspect in his / her intentions.

The culture is definitely different - even at the airport, you will notice the non-smoking departure lounge is ratty, tatty, crowded and bustling - not where yo want to rest - and the smokers' lounge is modern, spacious, comfortable and may not have many smokers. That's because most of the folks using the nonsmokers' are foreigners with no status in the culture, and those using the smoking lounge are often Egyptian politicians, powerful people, etc. (Who esle can afford a lounge membership?) and many of them smoke.

So, remember: we personify our countrymen and origins, so we have to be on our best, and to benefit most, we can refrain from personalizing. We personify, but it's not healthy to personalize too much and allow it to upset us, when it's not about us at all.

Travel is for those who seek differences - if you can't handle them, be selective in where you go; everyone will be happier for it. This is said with no nasty intent - it's just the truth.

Bon voyage, buen viaje, au sa lia mada, safari njema! Oh, and have a good trip.

Paid 40 LE for the round trip and kept the driver waiting an hour and a half while we toured a little and then had a beverage at the Cafe. Has anyone palyed golf at the course there? I saw it as we were leaving and thought it would be kinda cool to play under the pyramids. :-: