Flying High In The Delta Double Wide
Jan 16, 2016, 9:54 pm
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Posts: 5,108
Flying High In The Delta Double Wide
I should start by saying that I appreciate the effort people put into most trip reports, but that most of my trips have been covered elsewhere. Yes, the UD of the 747 is awesome, but you know that already. You know about the beer machines in NRT and the butterfly garden in SIN and the Clubhouse in LHR. The most exotic place I've flown into is probably LTO on a Q400, though the time I bought a replacement walkup fare in COK and came out ahead due to currency fluctuations might be slightly interesting. So for my first TR I've decided to write about JFK-SFO on a DL 767, something I suspect few of you have ever experienced 
I had a trip to SFO coming up and J from JFK was starting at about $850/ow, which is a bit higher than I wanted to spend. (I'll sometimes buy the $599 Mint fares from B6 or the corresponding fares from the majors.) As usual, DL had no inventory for mileage or certificate upgrades, so that option was out. Domestic F options were a couple of hundred cheaper, but require a change of planes, adding a couple of hours and the usual uncertainty of making a connection.
As a search of my past posts might suggest, I'm a fan of international Premium Economy (W). For me, the extra width is probably more important than the legroom or the gout-inducing meal. Somehow I get the most annoying people next to me, like my JFK-NRT flight where the gentleman next to me (slightly too wide for his seat) kept letting his pillow fall into my lap. I finally threw it on the floor in front of him, "Excuse me sir, please be careful!" he said to me, to which I responded by explaining how he had spent the last seven or eight hours invading my space (it wasn't just the pillow). My explanation might have been a bit loud, as people started looking at us in that "are we going to have an incident?" kind of way.
Or the guy next to me on LAX-JFK who, while otherwise the perfect person to travel next to (didn't smell, slept most of the flight, no strange noises), had a strange arm spasm and kept slapping me (which would wake him up and then he'd immediately apologize) until I stuffed my jacket between us. My jacket still hasn't forgiven me.
Or a different guy next to me on a different LAX-JFK flight, who in spite of the fact that the person on the other aisle (we were in the center three seats on a 767) moved to a different row didn't seem to understand that he could now move out of his middle seat and give us both extra space. (In fact, the FA proactively explained to him that he could move over.) I think it might have been because he finally got the IFE into Spanish and couldn't figure out how to do it again on the other seat. I forcibly took the armrest back that time... sorry, middle seat doesn't get to keep the armrest when you have an entire empty seat next to you on the other side.
Anyway, you get the idea... I like my lateral space. So back to this SFO trip. The nice thing about flying TCON in January when oil is like $30 a barrel and everyone keeps adding capacity (primarily for premium seats) is that my one way ticket priced out at a mere $124. Not quite as good as the $99 from a decade ago, but not bad. Sure I now only get about 1100 RDM instead of the ~6000 I used to net as a DL DM, but as I value SkyMiles at $0.00 each I figure this to be no big loss. At $124, why not buy two seats? The second seat wouldn't earn any miles, but again I projected this to be a loss of $0.00 in value.
The first step was figuring out an itinerary. DL now operates the 763 to SFO, with its 2-3-2 seating that would naturally be my first choice. I dialed up the Medallion line and explained to the agent that I wanted to buy two seats. "I've never done that before," she said before proceeding to book my tickets. "OK, all set, let me just double check everything." She put me on hold and I took a snapshot of my itinerary from delta.com. Five minutes later she same back. "Sorry, I did it wrong and had to completely redo it." I had a new PNR locator and ticket numbers, but other than that I have no idea what changed. She placed me in 15FG, Comfort+ (Y+) seats which I get access to (for now) as a DM.
On a side note, Delta's new unnecessarily complex C+ access policy means in the future I'd probably have to pay for C+ for at least the second seat, assuming there was even "upgrade" inventory for the first seat. Overall the process would be a lot more complicated and expensive, and I'd probably look seriously at B6 at that point, where I could get a similar amount of legroom for the regular Y price, or pay extra for about 3" more (vs DL) in their EMS seats. Also, the base fare of $124 obviously makes this option attractive. During peak times a J seat can be cheaper than two Y seats.
But back to the booking. I noticed that 15G has a misaligned window, so I moved me and Mr. EXST to row 16 for the window. Or I think I did. Fast forward to Monday, when OLCI opened and my itinerary now showed 17FG. Maybe I picked 17? I didn't think I did, as I try to avoid the last row of C+, and on some of DL 763s row 17 is regular Y. After double checking the seatmaps, I confirmed row 17 was still C+ and tried to check-in.
OLCI fail. Itinerary cannot be processed for OLCI, please check in at the airport. A minor nuisance, but not a show stopper. I decide to leave extra time just in case.
At the airport, the kiosk will let me check myself in, but not my extra seat. That seems not so useful, so I head to the SkyPriority queue and speak to an agent. "No problem," she says, while her computer suddenly decides to become excruciatingly slow. I apparently have this effect on computers, so I grab one of the seven hundred bottles of Dasani water piled up in an apparent challenge to TSA. Finally my boarding passes spit out and she thanks me for being a Diamond. It's now that I think I am really one of those Double Diamonds that people brag about being, but then I get distracted by noticing my extra seat also got Pre-√.
I stop at Shake Shack before heading to the lounge, where the agent asks if I'm carrying an instrument with me. "No," I say, "I just need the extra space for work." I didn't have the time to tell her about all the people who always end up next to me.
Finally it's time to board. While one GA is trying to sort out the various zones into different lines, I genuinely can't tell where the PREM (J and DMs) pax are supposed to line up, so I just sort of hover around like gate lice normally do until a minute later they announce PREM boarding. Still unsure where the line is, I quietly filter into the amorphous blob of self loading premium freight. Fortunately I'm small and nobody notices me. I hand both boarding passes to the GA, who thanks me for making it easier for them to reconcile the count later. (i guess some people who book an extra seat don't hand both over, which throws off the final count?)
Twenty minutes later (those of you who have boarded a plane in JFK T4 know what I mean) I'm finally on board N190DN. As one of the first Y pax on board, I have my choice of OHB space. Both of my bags actually fit under both of my seats, so I just do that instead. I felt bad about taking up the larger outer bins, and I couldn't reach the smaller inner bins without stepping on the E seats, which ultimately would have passengers in them. I don't think they'd like me to step on their arms to reach my bag during flight.
And now, the part you've probably been trying to skip forward to, the report on my seat itself, the double wide. This is simply the widest seat I've ever had on a plane, clocking in at an incredible 37" (approximately). Not counting adjacent facilities, it's larger than every J seat I've been in. For comparison, the J seats on the same plane are a mere 21" wide, and even JAL's new F seats are only 33". Leg room is similar to domestic F, though. While it doesn't technically lie flat, I'm small enough that I can actually curl up in two seats, so it's Lie Flat Enough For Me™. (I figure I should trademark that before Delta® does... that was Worth It™.) Like a good J seat, I have both a window and direct aisle access.
I thought I might have two power outlets (I think one of the other 763 configs has power per seat in C+), but apparently there's just one for the pair of seats. (Further back there aren't any, so that's part of the reason I wanted to be towards the front of the plane.) I do have two USB ports, though, which means I have more power options than J passengers. I also have two IFE units, meaning one can get pegged to the airshow while the other runs The Comeback. The monitors are a bit smaller than J, but the DL 763 J screens aren't much to write home about.
During boarding, a couple of people eye my extra seat, but I seatbelt my jacket into the aisle seat to send the message "my jacket is special and needs to remain comfortable, so don't even think about it" to anyone who might try to poach. (This by the way is a different jacket than that LAX flight. That jacket refused to travel with me this time. I didn't want to lose another jacket due to lateral space issues.) Nobody actually tries. There are about 2 other empty C+ seats, though I think about 40 others scattered throughout Y.
J itself had 8 open at boarding (with 2 on the UG list). I presumably could have burned a cert and been upgraded, but having flown up front a gazillion times (most recently 11 days earlier), I can say I'm #firstworldproblems truly sick of the pasta. Double Wide class is actually more productive for me, as I don't waste two hours eating the same meal again for the hundredth time, and then immediately passing out for another two hours from it. (Of course, an hour of that newly found productivity just went into writing this TR.)
Meal service in C+ takes about 2 minutes, the time it takes to hand out the complimentary Luvo wrap (I wonder if I could have asked for two? But one was more than enough... there's only so much quinoa I can eat without watching episodes of Portlandia) and then to get a drink. With the other tray available for food and drink, I can keep my laptop out (also easier to reach since I don't have to get it from the OHB) and be productive basically from 10000 feet.
So in summary, at $248 vs $850, I would happily do this again. I'd even consider it on a 3-3 configured plane, though obviously that configuration wouldn't be aisle+window without going to Triple Wide class, and I'm not sure I really need three seats. At other price points, I'm not so sure. eg at $250/Y ($500 total) vs $599/J, I'd probably just go for the J ticket.
One final note: My extra seat just received a customer satisfaction survey.
I had a trip to SFO coming up and J from JFK was starting at about $850/ow, which is a bit higher than I wanted to spend. (I'll sometimes buy the $599 Mint fares from B6 or the corresponding fares from the majors.) As usual, DL had no inventory for mileage or certificate upgrades, so that option was out. Domestic F options were a couple of hundred cheaper, but require a change of planes, adding a couple of hours and the usual uncertainty of making a connection.
As a search of my past posts might suggest, I'm a fan of international Premium Economy (W). For me, the extra width is probably more important than the legroom or the gout-inducing meal. Somehow I get the most annoying people next to me, like my JFK-NRT flight where the gentleman next to me (slightly too wide for his seat) kept letting his pillow fall into my lap. I finally threw it on the floor in front of him, "Excuse me sir, please be careful!" he said to me, to which I responded by explaining how he had spent the last seven or eight hours invading my space (it wasn't just the pillow). My explanation might have been a bit loud, as people started looking at us in that "are we going to have an incident?" kind of way.
Or the guy next to me on LAX-JFK who, while otherwise the perfect person to travel next to (didn't smell, slept most of the flight, no strange noises), had a strange arm spasm and kept slapping me (which would wake him up and then he'd immediately apologize) until I stuffed my jacket between us. My jacket still hasn't forgiven me.
Or a different guy next to me on a different LAX-JFK flight, who in spite of the fact that the person on the other aisle (we were in the center three seats on a 767) moved to a different row didn't seem to understand that he could now move out of his middle seat and give us both extra space. (In fact, the FA proactively explained to him that he could move over.) I think it might have been because he finally got the IFE into Spanish and couldn't figure out how to do it again on the other seat. I forcibly took the armrest back that time... sorry, middle seat doesn't get to keep the armrest when you have an entire empty seat next to you on the other side.
Anyway, you get the idea... I like my lateral space. So back to this SFO trip. The nice thing about flying TCON in January when oil is like $30 a barrel and everyone keeps adding capacity (primarily for premium seats) is that my one way ticket priced out at a mere $124. Not quite as good as the $99 from a decade ago, but not bad. Sure I now only get about 1100 RDM instead of the ~6000 I used to net as a DL DM, but as I value SkyMiles at $0.00 each I figure this to be no big loss. At $124, why not buy two seats? The second seat wouldn't earn any miles, but again I projected this to be a loss of $0.00 in value.
The first step was figuring out an itinerary. DL now operates the 763 to SFO, with its 2-3-2 seating that would naturally be my first choice. I dialed up the Medallion line and explained to the agent that I wanted to buy two seats. "I've never done that before," she said before proceeding to book my tickets. "OK, all set, let me just double check everything." She put me on hold and I took a snapshot of my itinerary from delta.com. Five minutes later she same back. "Sorry, I did it wrong and had to completely redo it." I had a new PNR locator and ticket numbers, but other than that I have no idea what changed. She placed me in 15FG, Comfort+ (Y+) seats which I get access to (for now) as a DM.
On a side note, Delta's new unnecessarily complex C+ access policy means in the future I'd probably have to pay for C+ for at least the second seat, assuming there was even "upgrade" inventory for the first seat. Overall the process would be a lot more complicated and expensive, and I'd probably look seriously at B6 at that point, where I could get a similar amount of legroom for the regular Y price, or pay extra for about 3" more (vs DL) in their EMS seats. Also, the base fare of $124 obviously makes this option attractive. During peak times a J seat can be cheaper than two Y seats.
But back to the booking. I noticed that 15G has a misaligned window, so I moved me and Mr. EXST to row 16 for the window. Or I think I did. Fast forward to Monday, when OLCI opened and my itinerary now showed 17FG. Maybe I picked 17? I didn't think I did, as I try to avoid the last row of C+, and on some of DL 763s row 17 is regular Y. After double checking the seatmaps, I confirmed row 17 was still C+ and tried to check-in.
OLCI fail. Itinerary cannot be processed for OLCI, please check in at the airport. A minor nuisance, but not a show stopper. I decide to leave extra time just in case.
At the airport, the kiosk will let me check myself in, but not my extra seat. That seems not so useful, so I head to the SkyPriority queue and speak to an agent. "No problem," she says, while her computer suddenly decides to become excruciatingly slow. I apparently have this effect on computers, so I grab one of the seven hundred bottles of Dasani water piled up in an apparent challenge to TSA. Finally my boarding passes spit out and she thanks me for being a Diamond. It's now that I think I am really one of those Double Diamonds that people brag about being, but then I get distracted by noticing my extra seat also got Pre-√.
I stop at Shake Shack before heading to the lounge, where the agent asks if I'm carrying an instrument with me. "No," I say, "I just need the extra space for work." I didn't have the time to tell her about all the people who always end up next to me.
Finally it's time to board. While one GA is trying to sort out the various zones into different lines, I genuinely can't tell where the PREM (J and DMs) pax are supposed to line up, so I just sort of hover around like gate lice normally do until a minute later they announce PREM boarding. Still unsure where the line is, I quietly filter into the amorphous blob of self loading premium freight. Fortunately I'm small and nobody notices me. I hand both boarding passes to the GA, who thanks me for making it easier for them to reconcile the count later. (i guess some people who book an extra seat don't hand both over, which throws off the final count?)
Twenty minutes later (those of you who have boarded a plane in JFK T4 know what I mean) I'm finally on board N190DN. As one of the first Y pax on board, I have my choice of OHB space. Both of my bags actually fit under both of my seats, so I just do that instead. I felt bad about taking up the larger outer bins, and I couldn't reach the smaller inner bins without stepping on the E seats, which ultimately would have passengers in them. I don't think they'd like me to step on their arms to reach my bag during flight.
And now, the part you've probably been trying to skip forward to, the report on my seat itself, the double wide. This is simply the widest seat I've ever had on a plane, clocking in at an incredible 37" (approximately). Not counting adjacent facilities, it's larger than every J seat I've been in. For comparison, the J seats on the same plane are a mere 21" wide, and even JAL's new F seats are only 33". Leg room is similar to domestic F, though. While it doesn't technically lie flat, I'm small enough that I can actually curl up in two seats, so it's Lie Flat Enough For Me™. (I figure I should trademark that before Delta® does... that was Worth It™.) Like a good J seat, I have both a window and direct aisle access.
I thought I might have two power outlets (I think one of the other 763 configs has power per seat in C+), but apparently there's just one for the pair of seats. (Further back there aren't any, so that's part of the reason I wanted to be towards the front of the plane.) I do have two USB ports, though, which means I have more power options than J passengers. I also have two IFE units, meaning one can get pegged to the airshow while the other runs The Comeback. The monitors are a bit smaller than J, but the DL 763 J screens aren't much to write home about.
During boarding, a couple of people eye my extra seat, but I seatbelt my jacket into the aisle seat to send the message "my jacket is special and needs to remain comfortable, so don't even think about it" to anyone who might try to poach. (This by the way is a different jacket than that LAX flight. That jacket refused to travel with me this time. I didn't want to lose another jacket due to lateral space issues.) Nobody actually tries. There are about 2 other empty C+ seats, though I think about 40 others scattered throughout Y.
J itself had 8 open at boarding (with 2 on the UG list). I presumably could have burned a cert and been upgraded, but having flown up front a gazillion times (most recently 11 days earlier), I can say I'm #firstworldproblems truly sick of the pasta. Double Wide class is actually more productive for me, as I don't waste two hours eating the same meal again for the hundredth time, and then immediately passing out for another two hours from it. (Of course, an hour of that newly found productivity just went into writing this TR.)
Meal service in C+ takes about 2 minutes, the time it takes to hand out the complimentary Luvo wrap (I wonder if I could have asked for two? But one was more than enough... there's only so much quinoa I can eat without watching episodes of Portlandia) and then to get a drink. With the other tray available for food and drink, I can keep my laptop out (also easier to reach since I don't have to get it from the OHB) and be productive basically from 10000 feet.
So in summary, at $248 vs $850, I would happily do this again. I'd even consider it on a 3-3 configured plane, though obviously that configuration wouldn't be aisle+window without going to Triple Wide class, and I'm not sure I really need three seats. At other price points, I'm not so sure. eg at $250/Y ($500 total) vs $599/J, I'd probably just go for the J ticket.
One final note: My extra seat just received a customer satisfaction survey.
Last edited by bennos; Jan 28, 2016 at 4:47 pm Reason: Fix price of oil
