SAtraveller

We decided to go to Paris for a short holiday. We decided we'd try our hand at Air France because, firstly, we've never flown on Air France and secondly, we've never flown on the A380.

We normally fly J when we go overseas - but decided to try a small experiment - premium economy. There aren't too many airlines that offer long-haul premium economy (though the list is growing). The point of the experiment was to see whether we could get a business lite experience. Let's be honest, business class costs many times what a normal economy ticket costs, whereas premium economy costs approximately double. Perhaps for double the cost of economy we could experience excellent comfort and avoid spending a large amount of cash on our tickets.

Of course, we didn't merely dive into this decision head-first. I read pretty much every premium economy review available online, though they are scarce. Close to all of them stated that it is not business lite but economy plus. The airlines don't hide this fact: the name says as much. We decided to try anyway. The flight is pretty lengthy (~11 hours), so it was risky, but we were excited anyway.

1. JNB-CDG on Air France Airbus A380-800 in Premium Economy.
2. CDG-JNB on Air France Airbus A380-800 in Business Class.


We arrived at OR Tambo International in Johannesburg to find a huge amount of people trying to check-in. The logistics of trying to check-in over 500 people must be considerable. We'd checked in online but this didn't avoid the fact that we needed to stand in line to check-in our baggage. At this point a friendly lady was walking down the line offering a 300 Euro voucher to anyone who would defer their flight to the next day, considering the flight was overbooked. We politely declined.

It was then that we discovered that premium economy passengers are allowed to check-in with Sky Priority i.e. business/first/elite passengers. I actually considered that paying extra for premium economy was worth it merely from this point, considering we went from a line of hundreds to a line of about ten passengers. Check-in was a breeze and we received our two boarding passes - rows 84A and 84K.

You qualify for lounge access if you fly premium economy, but you must pay a supplementary charge of 35 Euro's each (depending on which airport you go to) to enter. We had status at other lounges and went for those, though we only had half an hour before boarding.



Our bird for the day


the craziness of boarding

When we arrived at the boarding gates, they had separated everyone into two groups: upper deck and lower deck. Luckily, being on the upper deck allowed us to sit in a far less packed area that was quite comfortable.

I still think that Air France chose the layout of their A380 poorly (and uniquely if I'm correct). They should have had the forward section of the upper deck allocated to First class, and the rest to business, and the forward section of the lower deck to premium economy and the rest to economy. It would have made boarding so much easier, as well as several other issues. As it is, you have premium economy and economy passengers allocated to the upper deck mixed up with the business class passengers who most assuredly do not appreciate this. Even worse, you have first class passengers sitting with the economy mass in the boarding area. Yes, they do keep the first class passengers wrapped in cotton wool in the first class lounge until the last moment, but first class passengers who wish to board early have an utterly raw deal. It's an illogical seat map if you ask me.

Moving along, boarding was pretty easy, though walking through business class amounted to the most severe torture for a regular J traveler, or a regular Y one I would imagine.


Aircraft: Airbus A380-800
Airline : Air France
Flight : 995
Flight : JNB-CDG
Load : 100% in Y/Y+/J/F


side shot of cabin















I'll have a small premium economy discussion at the end of this section of the trip report.

However, after passing through business, I was surprised at how intimate the premium economy cabin was. It's only a few rows (business class is much larger). Economy is set in a 3-4-3 configuration (except for the small economy section on the upper deck in a 2-4-2 configuration). Premium economy is 2-3-2. This is one of my favourite bonuses when flying premium economy (or any higher class). The third seat in a wide-body jet always creates the tension of who will arrive to sit next to you for the next 11 hours. In premium economy, it's just you and your partner, unless you fly solo, or decide to sit in the middle of the cabin.

The space in front of the seat is significantly improved compared to economy. I never once felt claustrophobic or cluttered during the flight, and honestly don't think I'd need more space in a cabin for sitting. Contrary to other reports I found the seats to be extremely comfortable. I didn't feel the need to sit on extra pillows or other such hyperbole that I read in other reviews. The seat is in a fixed shell so your movements, or those around you, doesn't affect you, which is a big plus. The armrest between the seats is immobile and some passengers may not like this.

There are two buttons on the side of the seat. The first one brings out a leg support for your lower leg, but like others I found this to be useless because it doesn't really go all the way and the angle is wrong. There is a retractable metal footrest on the seat in front of you which was useful. The second button causes your seat to slide down a bit, and create the illusion of retraction. Its the easiest process ever - you press the button and you slide down and when you want to come up you put your feet on the ground and push and you slide up. You can safely ignore rants about the impossible seat and how it took hours to figure it out - a baby could do it (the 90 year old woman behind me certainly could). The headrest is adjustable.

There are great storage compartments under the windows that are very useful, but only for small objects. There is a lot of space between your seat and the window, so people who rely on sleeping against the window may have a problem (I've read about that complaint before and it's probably true).

There are two bottles of water on the seatback in front of you, if you need water. The TV screen is the same size as that in economy class. I found the entertainment system to be excellent - lots of recent movies (I watched Argo and Lincoln), a mass of old movies, games and inflight maps and cameras. The screen is touch screen and easy to navigate but there is also a side control/phone too. You get a pair of Sennheiser noise-cancelling headsets that are built into the seats, not distributed. You get disposable ear covers in your amenity kit if you're afraid of the previous person's germs. These headsets are the same as in business class. I found the sound acceptable, but compared to other airlines, the headsets are substandard. The seat has all sorts of charging areas for your ipad etc, but I didn't use them.


Amenity kit and blanket

The blanket and pillow are both soft and wrapped in plastic when you first arrive. Both are the same as those in business class. The blanket is soft, warm and completely adequate, but the pillow is a little too small and rather flimsy. The amenity kit contains all those things you can see above - I rarely use any of it - but it too, is the same as in business class. I think the business class kit contains a face cream and the bag is slightly different, but that is it. You make use of the economy toilets at the back of the plane, which look like all other economy toilets. Some people smuggle into the business class toilets which are actually much closer, but on our flight this was ferociously prohibited.

We took off pretty much on time, and I was shocked at how quiet the aircraft is. It is by far the quietest aircraft I have ever been on, and I was hugely impressed.

A few minutes after take off and the crew sprung into action. I know people have had bad experiences with Air France crew but we found them to be fantastic. They were friendly, and were constantly throwing witty remarks and jokes around. They went out of their way to accommodate a lady with a broken leg, and never wavered in their good service.







We were handed the menus which seemed to be specific for premium economy. Sorry for the pink pictures - the cabin really was pink thanks to the mood lighting, and it didn't help that the menu was red too. I'd read before that the menu is an economy menu, so I can't confirm whether this is true and they merely inserted 'premium economy' onto the front, or if there are any differences. You may have noticed the generous tray table. It was about double the size of that in economy, and similar to that in business. It's a very useful commodity that shouldn't be underestimated.


red wine and nutty things for starter


delicious main course and dessert


after meal coffee, chocolates and cognac

I found the food to be pretty much economy-like. I've never been fussy with food, so you won't easily hear complaints from me. The starter was tasty, and the main course (beef curry) was absolutely delicious. The tiramisu was a bit dry I guess. The rolls were cold (I've discovered that this is a critical point to some people).

After that we settled in and enjoyed the remaining 9 hours of the flight. There was irritating turbulence from time to time - the type that shakes the plane, laughs and runs away, only to return half an hour later.

I couldn't sleep - but I'll discuss this later. The crew made drinks runs every hour (I know because I was awake) and were friendly at all times. They also made ice-cream runs twice and that was fantastic.





At last we approached Europe and hit the 'jetstream' the pilot told us about, and that left us all shaken and not stirred. Breakfast was served though my coffee bounced around a bit. It was all very tasty.


Breakfast

We landed on time, and transferred from a tropical climate to a frozen one, but it was all good fun.

Premium Economy Discussion

I did a lot of research on premium economy before I booked it, and was genuinely interested to see whether it could make an acceptable bridge between economy and business. I had no expectations that it would be closer to business class than economy, but I was hoping that it would be comfortable enough to be a viable option in the future.

I think the answer to this question depends on what you are looking for on a flight, and also what your previous experiences are. A family next to me who regularly travel in economy said it was so luxurious and a real treat, whereas for someone who travels regularly in J might feel the downgrade.

I personally will not fly it longhaul again, and here are my reasons why...

The extras you are provided with are genuinely noteworthy. You get a business class check-in, paid lounge access if you wish, extra seat space, upgraded food, priority baggage and a few other things. These small things make the experience much more comfortable and are only palpable when you actually take them away. The cabin itself is really fantastic - small, and intimate, with a great deal of personal space.

My problem, though, was that I couldn't sleep. I landed feeling half-dead, and it felt like an economy class experience from a sleep perspective. To be fair, I'm a poor sleeper on a plane, and many passengers did seem to sleep quite comfortably. However, I do sleep in J, and I can't in Y+... and that remains a big thing for me on international long-haul.

So did Premium Economy have any benefit for me?

Definitely. I would say that apart from the fact that I couldn't sleep, it is a very good product. I would agree with other opinions that I have read that state that it is fantastic for a long day flight, but for a night flight - not so much. In the future I am going to apply this philosophy. I'm going to remain in J for long overnight flights, but I'll fly Y+ for day flights. A good example would be CDG-JFK in the day - I think that would be superb place for premium economy, and I also plan to use it later this year from HKG-SIN on CX, if available.

Thanks for reading the review... some commentary would be nice.

Coming up... flying back in J...

wtcmor

Great job. It's all personal preference but I would rather fly once a year in J than many flights in PE. That being said, Qantas offer a good PE product where there are obvious extras.

KACommuter

That looks like a really nice PE hard product. Better than both BA and QF, which seat 2-4-2 on aircraft where the Y seating is 3-4-3. Food looks considerably inferior to QF's though. One point - you won't get PE on CX between SIN and HKG unless a new long haul aircraft is used. The default aircrafft are regional ones, which only have J and Y.

SAtraveller

After spending a week in Paris, we decided to return in our rested state. Of course, I refused to not sleep again for the entire flight, so upgrading was the mission of the day. I waited until the day of the flight in the event that the infamous upgrade email reared its head, but I knew it was a vain hope as the flight was not full. Air France then wanted a scandalous amount of money to upgrade us, and we decided to wait until an hour before boarding before trying again. Sure enough, we returned to the ticketing area and managed to upgrade for less than half of the 'scandalous amount'. Safely allocated to J we passed through and went to the Air France business class lounge.

Air France business class lounge

The lounge is pretty easy to get to and the staff are welcoming at the reception desk, but rather absent elsewhere. The lounge is large at CDG, but also busy. We struggled to find open seats even though it was 22:00.

People have criticized the lounge for its poor catering and I think this is completely fair. As their main worldwide lounge, I think the catering is extremely poor compared to other airlines and the services they provide. From a drinks point-of-view, they do a good job - there is a multitude of soft drinks, coffees, teas and alcoholic beverages. Food is limited to packets of Lays, some pithy salads and tramezzini wedges. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but if you consider what Emirates and other airlines offer respectively, there is no real comparison.

There are soft leather seats everywhere, and wi-fi is free for 6 hours. There were several desktop computers with internet access. I never investigated the lounge's other features, but there is apparently a spa and other facilities.




Boarding was as chaotic as in Johannesburg. I felt sorry for the staff. The Sky Priority line specifically listed in red who was allowed to board there but about a third of Y couldn't understand this, forcing the boarding attendant to manually check each ticket and tell the person if they qualified. The glass boarding gates were wonderful to walk along and clearly made for the A380, and I'm sorry I didn't take a good picture of one. As usually, we were mashed in with premium economy and the aft economy section leading to substantial traffic to get into the plane (refer to my thoughts on the seat plan in the previous section of the report).

We were originally allocated to seats 67E and 67F but we were moved to 65E and 65F due to the seat being broken. Unfortunately these new seats were bulkhead seats and I'm not a huge fan of them, but there it is.

The Flight

Aircraft : A380-800
Airline : Air France
Flight : 990
Flight : CDG-JNB
Load : F 50%, J 80%, Y+ 100%, Y 70%









The seat was wonderful, of course, soft and nice to sit in. I didn't find it too narrow. Its an angled-lie flat, but for all intents and purposes you don't notice it. I've always been a fan of an angled-lie flat (within limits), considering the plane flies with a slightly upwards pitch, angled-lie flat makes it feel flat whereas fully flat makes you feel like you're lying a bit head down. I'm not sure if I'm the only one who feels this way? The seat has easy to use controls and a built in massage feature that I used once for a few minutes. The seat has presets to sit, relax and lie down, as well as customized functions to alter any aspect of the seat.

As I said in the previous section of the trip report, the pillow, blanket and headset was the same as in premium economy. The amenity kit was slightly different with a different bag and some face cream.


Pre-take off champagne (amenity kit in the background)


Don't know why I love this small stuff so much... this was the first of four during the flight.

The crew couldn't get the pre-flight safety video to work and performed it manually, causing them to giggle uncontrollably - I suppose they haven't done it for quite some time. The dysfunctional video made me dread a broken entertainment system for the next 11 hours, but luckily this didn't come to fruition. We took off a few minutes late but the overall flight was shortened by some good tail winds (there was also far less turbulence).



Its unfair to comment on the size of the screen - as you can see its the same size as the one we had in premium economy. Unfortunately this was the bad luck of the bulkhead seats. Other seats had much larger screens, in the region of 50% larger. The entertainment system was the same as in premium economy, and excellent. As I said, bulkhead seats aren't my favourite, and we had to deal with some light crew chatter and galley sounds from time to time.

Food Time

The food was extremely tasty, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, well presented. I'm not one for gourmet food really, but this seemed like a good meal presented in a great way. I also sampled many of the alcohols - champagne, red wine, cognac - and all were good. I'm starting to become a fan of french red wine, but this started in Paris already. The sorbet was some of the best I've ever tasted.

Comfort

After dinner, I felt the full weight of the time ... it was 2am thanks to this red-eye flight. The staff had been impeccable and were doing drinks runs constantly, and were chatty and friendly despite the hour.

I made a quick trip to the lavatory. It wasn't as impressive as other J lavatories I've seen, and resembled a Y lavatory with some products. They were in no shortage though - four in the front and two at the back (though the business class section is very large on this plane). I settled my seat back into the relaxed position and watched Django Unchained, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Despite that I fell asleep half way through and woke up only to make my seat into a bed and continue the dream process. I found the seat to be as comfortable as most other J products I've flown on.

At last we started out descent and were blessed with quite a decent breakfast. I opted for the pancakes and syrup, though several choices were available. I also finished watching the second half of my movie.







We touched down safely, and early. Overall I was impressed with the J-class product offered by Air France. I still think they're outclassed by some of the Middle Eastern and Far Eastern Airlines, but this mainly has to do with the lounge experience. I would recommend AF J (and Y+ if you read the whole report).

Thanks for reading this, and for any comments you may post.

SAtraveller

I'm also like that regarding J - though many people think its a crazy philosophy. If I'm correct QF is currently the best rates PE product..?

Thanks for the advice... I'd been worried about that. I understand that CX offers PE on its 744's only, and was hoping to land up in one of those. Maybe next time.

AF seem to offer more 'economy' food than other PE products. I understand BA offers a Club main to its PE passengers.

ExpatSomchai

Many thanks for sharing your experience. I have always wanted to know more about the AF Y+ product.

Carfield

Thanks for a great trip report!

I am actually disappointed to see how the food is almost same as Y, and even the main course is not different. I guess you basically get a more comfortable seat. However for economy food, Air France is quite good. However, I am surprised that the second meal on the JNB flight is a continental style meal, but then it might have to do with the European culture, than actual cutbacks.

Thanks again!

Carfield

Dieuwer

What do you mean by "ticketing area"? The pre-security check-in desk? And you just asked "how much for an upgrade"?

Did you sleep comfortably in the J seat on the way back?

Swiss Tony

Can you tell us the upgrade costs? Always interested in that sort of detail!

Nice report btw.

KACommuter

No, the CX PE product is also on a lot of the newer 777 codenamed 77W. In any case SIN HKG is only 3 hrs 45mins.

halfcape

Thanks for your tr. I enjoyed the report and photos. Thanks for sharing.

time2go1st

Thanks so much, I've hoped for awhile to see just such a TR on this option a bit up from plain Y. I appreciate that the PE might be better on a long day flight, while keeping the J for night when sleep is really the objective -- quite relevant for us here in Southern California, or elsewhere on the USA West Coast, who may want a week or 10 days in Paris without spending the first half of it in a zombie state from jet lag. On the other hand, I've found even J on AF not ideal for sleeping, and could not imagine it in Y, so maybe for some the PE seat could be just good enough, while keeping the J for daytime while awake to actually enjoy the service more. Decisions, decisions, especially if you are paying your own fare and need to economize somewhere. Anyhow, thanks again for your so careful and detailed report.

aw

Thanks for sharing this great report about AF long haul products. I share Carfield's dissapointment about the quality of Y+ food. I think that when it comes to Premium Economy, TK offers the best out there, and for $300 one way to upgrade from Y to Y+ on LAX-IST, it is quite a bargain.

SAtraveller

It's a great pleasure!

I've never flown any PE products before, but it seems from the commentary that one would expect significantly better food than we got.

The first time was at the main Air France ticketing area in terminal 2E - it's listed as such, and has to do with all types of ticketing inquiries. The second time was at pre-security check-in. I merely said I would like to upgrade to business. They first asked whether we were Flying Blue members because they had a special for 150 Euros plus miles, but we weren't. The sleep back was very comfortable... pretty much as comfortable as most J products.

The initial quote they gave us was just over 1500 Euros per person, which seemed too much for a one way upgrade. We asked at the check-in counter and after a phone call it was reduced to 763 Euros each. The two attempts were only a few hours apart. I was relieved by the difference, but also a little irritated - I hate inconsistency, though I suppose its understandable closer to take-off where they want to fill the cabin.

Thanks

It was my pleasure.

It is difficult. I imagine that Americans on the West Coast have the same problems we in Johannesburg do i.e. everything is far away. J really does seem like the only option if you want to feel better than a zombie, but they certainly make you pay for it. I don't rate AF as my best J experience by far... I'd much rather go for QF, EK or SQ.

I understand they're trying to phase out their Comfort Class, which is a real pity. I've only heard good reviews.

CubsFanJohn

Great Trip report! A few comments/rants since I flew AF on the A380 in J a few years ago. Thanks to Dad's SkyPesos.

I flew the A380 from JFK-CDG in J (63K, the front mini-cab) in 2011 and I too, thought the configuration wasn't the best since either especially with all the foot traffic when boarding because Y had to go thru the main business class cabin just to get to their seats. I would have done All Y on the upper lower deck too. If anything you would maybe be able to add a few more J seats.

When I flew in J the crew was great. Actually had one flirting with me.

What did you think of it? I tried and I couldn't stand it. Too strong.

I think it depends on the person if you can sleep on a plane or not. For example I can sleep pretty much anywhere. I slept like a baby in J. Only flight in Y I haven't been able to sleep on was on AA from Chicago-Brussels and the only reason for that was because we flew over Greenland and I was excited for Study Abroad

Now my Dad he couldn't sleep J. As he put it "I can't sleep in the back of the bus nor can I sleep in the front of the bus."

Same with JFK when I flew. What ever happened to people learning how to R-E-A-D?

I loved the seat. I was surprised how wide it was to be honest.

Any idea what the name was? I believe we had the same one from JFK-CDG. I would love to get a bottle of it someday.

Regarding the presentation ours was different (everything on two trays. Appitizer then main entree) but it had to do with the fact ours was suppose to be a 2200 departure which ended up being a 2335 departure.

While I'd fly AF again I wouldn't connect with less than a three-four hour layover in CDG.