When not wanting to change seats gets ugly: DFW-LAX, Friday night, 8-26-11
Aug 31, 2011, 12:31 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,558
I usually just read these kinds of things and say "Man, that's horrid", but in this case, I had to respond.
For sure there are lots of people who have had nasty situations, but I have finally found someone who has had a similar situation to what I had a few years ago on an AA MIA to EZE flight.
I was an EXECPLT sitting in a 777, full-fare paid J class seat (10A, won't ever forget it), when a couple marches onto the plane and literally explodes their stuff all over the last row of business. 10B is taken by the wife, and the next row back in the middle by the husband. I am talking on my phone when the husband says "Hey you in 10A, switch seats with me back there." I just look at him and continue my conversation. He then says "HEY! I want to sit next to my new wife. We are newlyweds - CHANGE SEATS!" I hung up and before I could say anything he says "You going to change with me or what?" I said "I prefer to keep the window seat, so let's see if we can find someone who will change with me a window- maybe a double switch." This was my 31st time on this flight and so I know the drill and I know what I need to sleep, and a window is it since I don't sleep well reclined in the old J class seats.
Here's how the conversation went:
Husband: At the top of his lungs "See this a**hole in 10A, he is refusing to let 2 newlyweds sit together on their honeymoon flight. What a f**cker!"
I am just dumbfounded at this point. I've neither said no, and even offered to help get involved with the seat changing process.
Husband: "You fly alot?"
Me: "a fair bit".
Husband says: "So you think that gives you rights, I guess?"
Me: "well, nothing more than having a BP with my name and a seat assignment on it"
Wife: "Im sorry all he wants is for you to change seats. He doesn't mean to be like this."
Me: "Based on the F word and calling me an A-hole, I think he's lost any chance of me doing anything for him."
Husband: "I can't believe you won't change seats (voice louder) with TWO NEWLYWEDS! THIS GUY IS A JERK!!! Someone - ANYONE - change seats with me since A-hole over in 10A won't help me!"
Everyone in the cabin is looking at me - I catch the eye of a flight attendant standing near the bulkhead and he says "dont switch if you don't want to". Not sure what I was expecting but after the last 5 minute profanity laced rant, maybe something like a calm down to the husband or something similar. But, I can handle myself so I just kept myself together and my temper in check.
Next thing I know - the guy sitting in the middle next to the husband says "I will be the first to move - let me tell you that much".
So, wife ends up next to the husband in the middle row. People heave a sigh of relief and Im stewing about what I just went through.
At the end of the flight when we are disembarking, the husband gets in one last jab. He shouts at me as I get my bag out of the overhead bin:
Husband: "Hey jerk! Thanks for all you did to help two people on their honeymoon. I hope someone treats you just as bad as you've treated us. But Im sure you're single because no person would marry someone a selfish f**k like you!" (whole cabin looking at me again!)
I finally had it. I looked over and said to his new wife:
"You've got yourself a REAL catch there. I hope you enjoy the rest of your life - because from my point of view - I'm the one walking off this plane a winner." (laughter from 2 guys next to him- thought I was more witty than that)
Husband: "Watch your back - we're not in the US anymore!"
So, all that to say is you're not alone and you'll always look back on the situation and go "what did I do to deserve that?"
For sure there are lots of people who have had nasty situations, but I have finally found someone who has had a similar situation to what I had a few years ago on an AA MIA to EZE flight.
I was an EXECPLT sitting in a 777, full-fare paid J class seat (10A, won't ever forget it), when a couple marches onto the plane and literally explodes their stuff all over the last row of business. 10B is taken by the wife, and the next row back in the middle by the husband. I am talking on my phone when the husband says "Hey you in 10A, switch seats with me back there." I just look at him and continue my conversation. He then says "HEY! I want to sit next to my new wife. We are newlyweds - CHANGE SEATS!" I hung up and before I could say anything he says "You going to change with me or what?" I said "I prefer to keep the window seat, so let's see if we can find someone who will change with me a window- maybe a double switch." This was my 31st time on this flight and so I know the drill and I know what I need to sleep, and a window is it since I don't sleep well reclined in the old J class seats.
Here's how the conversation went:
Husband: At the top of his lungs "See this a**hole in 10A, he is refusing to let 2 newlyweds sit together on their honeymoon flight. What a f**cker!"
I am just dumbfounded at this point. I've neither said no, and even offered to help get involved with the seat changing process.
Husband: "You fly alot?"
Me: "a fair bit".
Husband says: "So you think that gives you rights, I guess?"
Me: "well, nothing more than having a BP with my name and a seat assignment on it"
Wife: "Im sorry all he wants is for you to change seats. He doesn't mean to be like this."
Me: "Based on the F word and calling me an A-hole, I think he's lost any chance of me doing anything for him."
Husband: "I can't believe you won't change seats (voice louder) with TWO NEWLYWEDS! THIS GUY IS A JERK!!! Someone - ANYONE - change seats with me since A-hole over in 10A won't help me!"
Everyone in the cabin is looking at me - I catch the eye of a flight attendant standing near the bulkhead and he says "dont switch if you don't want to". Not sure what I was expecting but after the last 5 minute profanity laced rant, maybe something like a calm down to the husband or something similar. But, I can handle myself so I just kept myself together and my temper in check.
Next thing I know - the guy sitting in the middle next to the husband says "I will be the first to move - let me tell you that much".
So, wife ends up next to the husband in the middle row. People heave a sigh of relief and Im stewing about what I just went through.
At the end of the flight when we are disembarking, the husband gets in one last jab. He shouts at me as I get my bag out of the overhead bin:
Husband: "Hey jerk! Thanks for all you did to help two people on their honeymoon. I hope someone treats you just as bad as you've treated us. But Im sure you're single because no person would marry someone a selfish f**k like you!" (whole cabin looking at me again!)
I finally had it. I looked over and said to his new wife:
"You've got yourself a REAL catch there. I hope you enjoy the rest of your life - because from my point of view - I'm the one walking off this plane a winner." (laughter from 2 guys next to him- thought I was more witty than that)
Husband: "Watch your back - we're not in the US anymore!"
So, all that to say is you're not alone and you'll always look back on the situation and go "what did I do to deserve that?"
Aug 31, 2011, 12:34 pm
#47
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,558
[QUOTE=dranz;17027802]Over the years, I've had a couple of similar [cough] pleasures. My general
tactic is to put-on the Bose headsets and IGNORE.QUOTE]
This is the best advice on this board.
If they get physical in any way, then I would ask the airline employees to do something about their passenger.
tactic is to put-on the Bose headsets and IGNORE.QUOTE]
This is the best advice on this board.
If they get physical in any way, then I would ask the airline employees to do something about their passenger.
Aug 31, 2011, 12:36 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,558
You can chalk it up to the "easy way out", or pure laziness on the FA's part.
Aug 31, 2011, 1:33 pm
#49
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11
Wow GDS - I'm amazed that guy wasn't kicked off the plane with his lucky bride. I mentioned in my first post that I'll move pretty much anywhere if I'm asked nicely (except bulkhead! Oh and unlike you I don't like the window seats in BC because when the person in the aisle reclines the seat you're under house arrest, so I'd be hesitant to move there too). However, if someone pointed at me and demanded I change seats, forget it. Good for you and nice barb at the end - would be nice to think he learned a little lesson from it but judging from his "watch your back" comment it would appear otherwise. People like that are usually unchangeable. It's like tapping your brakes to make a tailgater back off - I used to that until I realized it just p*sses the other driver off. The last time I'll ever do that resulted in me being stalked by the other guy for 10 minutes in a high-speed chase through the back streets of my hometown (the incident my friend Kev LAX referred to in his post).
I like the cheeseburger analogy. I have one too. Have you ever tried to watch a movie sitting in the front row of the theater? It's a nightmare. You can't see the whole screen, you're constantly having to crane your head to follow the action. I like the back row; you can see everything, and there's nobody behind you talking or kicking your seat. If there was an empty seat next to me in the back row in a packed theater and a couple asked me to move to the one empty seat in the front row so they could sit together, I wouldn't want to do that either.
I like the cheeseburger analogy. I have one too. Have you ever tried to watch a movie sitting in the front row of the theater? It's a nightmare. You can't see the whole screen, you're constantly having to crane your head to follow the action. I like the back row; you can see everything, and there's nobody behind you talking or kicking your seat. If there was an empty seat next to me in the back row in a packed theater and a couple asked me to move to the one empty seat in the front row so they could sit together, I wouldn't want to do that either.
Sep 1, 2011, 1:22 am
#50
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: HKG
Programs: CX Diamond (OW Emerald)
Posts: 9
Jaybag, I understand it was difficult since the guy had already started walking away, but what I would advise to anyone who is on the receiving end of a threat is not to pull their phone out to call 911 - it would be to say VERY LOUDLY (embarrassing people is a great way to make them back down) "Security/Police/Barman/Crewmember [adjust according to situation], I need some help here, this guy is threatening me!" and keep saying it until the authorities come and take over.
Sorry you had such a horrible experience. May all your future travels be calm and happy (and in the seat you had the foresight to book).
Sorry you had such a horrible experience. May all your future travels be calm and happy (and in the seat you had the foresight to book).
Sep 1, 2011, 4:19 am
#51
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oslo
Programs: SK*D; Accor & Starwood Plat
Posts: 82
2 years ago, I was flying LX from ZRH to YYZ, sitting in economy. When arriving to my seat, I find it occupied by a woman (boarding late due to connection from OSL), so I politely ask this person whether the should sit here as it appears to be my seat, having experienced double seat booking before. She does not answer. Even does not look at me, eventough I tried to speak to her in French, English, German, Norwegian ... so I asked the purser who fumble around with what appears finally to be a family of five in a row (2+3). The purser asks me then whether I want to move to another seat to accomodate this family. The new designated seat being the one next to the toilets. so i say I would prefer not and like to have my window seat. he then fumbles around the family that gets very loud and yelled at him, so he disapear in the front of the plane for a few min while I akwardly wait ... to come back with my boarding crossed and the new "next to the toilet" seat on it. telling me the pilot is instructing me to take this seat for the security reasons ... the most "amazing" being that they were sitted in 5 different places and had made move five different persons in that plane to take the row in question.
I did so but made also clear to the purser that it was my last time on LX, which I have been true to my words so far.
Sep 1, 2011, 5:49 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Flying Blue, easyJet Plus (!)
Posts: 1,762
This applies just like my other rule (which applies outside the US, at least; I recognise things there are different) - if a waiter/waitress/anyone else asks for or demonstrates any kind of entitlement to a tip, one will absolutely not be given.
OTOH, with both rules this applies: for a seat swap ask nicely without showing entitlement, or for a tip don't ask, and in both cases you are quite likely to get. I'm not a "miserable" person in that sense, but I have no time for rude people or those who feel they are entitled to something they are not.
Neil
Sep 1, 2011, 7:05 am
#53
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: AA PLT, UA Silver, EK Gold, Hilton Diamond, Global Entry, Clear
Posts: 1,082
First off; Jay, you're a class act!
I saw something very similar happen at baggage claim at ORD not too long ago. Two big drunk clowns were threatening a guy in what was apparently a continuation of a dispute about overhead storage. The guy being threatened was doing his level best to ignore these two beauties, but it was clear he was concerned about being outnumbered and assaulted when he walked out the door. I made eye contact with the two college guys standing next to me who were shaking their heads at the way the drunks were acting, and asked them if they were willing to stand next to me to help even the odds a bit while I helped the guy out. Answer, absolutely! Long story short; the three of us walked over and told the clowns the CPD were on the way, and they better leave our friend alone. After dropping a few F bombs in a pathetic attempt to save face, they made a hasty exit. One for the good guys!
+1
It also amazes me when they continue to serve alcohol to someone who's clearly intoxicated. Now, I'm not talking about someone who's enjoying themselves on a 13 hour TPAC. I'm referring to the yobs that can't negotiate the aisle to their seat when boarding, and begin the flight with a slurred demand for more booze!
I saw something very similar happen at baggage claim at ORD not too long ago. Two big drunk clowns were threatening a guy in what was apparently a continuation of a dispute about overhead storage. The guy being threatened was doing his level best to ignore these two beauties, but it was clear he was concerned about being outnumbered and assaulted when he walked out the door. I made eye contact with the two college guys standing next to me who were shaking their heads at the way the drunks were acting, and asked them if they were willing to stand next to me to help even the odds a bit while I helped the guy out. Answer, absolutely! Long story short; the three of us walked over and told the clowns the CPD were on the way, and they better leave our friend alone. After dropping a few F bombs in a pathetic attempt to save face, they made a hasty exit. One for the good guys!
It also amazes me when they continue to serve alcohol to someone who's clearly intoxicated. Now, I'm not talking about someone who's enjoying themselves on a 13 hour TPAC. I'm referring to the yobs that can't negotiate the aisle to their seat when boarding, and begin the flight with a slurred demand for more booze!
Sep 1, 2011, 10:35 am
#54
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Programs: AA Platinum Pro
Posts: 652
Kudos
Jay -- Bravo! Pure class. But, wow, what a nightmare!
Domestically -- I'll switch most of the time, if asked politely. EXCEPT - for a bulkhead with less pitch.
Was on a 752 - DFW-LAX in 2E a few weeks ago. Couple boarded late and asked for me to switch to 1E. I just honestly replied " Gosh, sorry the leg room is less there, so I intentionally don't book that seat". Now, they were well-mannered and simply said they understood. Have used that response 2-3 times and fortunately have never had a negative reaction (out loud at least)
My long haul wide body flights in Biz/First are always for leisure/vaca, so no problem declining when you are traveling with your s.o.
Domestically -- I'll switch most of the time, if asked politely. EXCEPT - for a bulkhead with less pitch.
Was on a 752 - DFW-LAX in 2E a few weeks ago. Couple boarded late and asked for me to switch to 1E. I just honestly replied " Gosh, sorry the leg room is less there, so I intentionally don't book that seat". Now, they were well-mannered and simply said they understood. Have used that response 2-3 times and fortunately have never had a negative reaction (out loud at least)
My long haul wide body flights in Biz/First are always for leisure/vaca, so no problem declining when you are traveling with your s.o.
Sep 1, 2011, 10:46 am
#55
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP/Admiral's Club; Amex Platinum; AA Citi Executive; SPG Gold
Posts: 696
I definitely think that there's an etiquette that you never ask someone to move to a worse seat than they had before. I've regularly been in a situation where I've been in 4A on a 738/MD80 and a traveling companion was in 3E and I'll always offer my seat to the person in the bulkhead rather than demanding that someone move to a worse seat. Honestly, I feel like I rarely get asked to move seats but I definitely would but only if I were asked respectfully. That said, if I were in coach I would never give up an exit row.
The OP is a classy guy. Honestly, if that situation happened to me then I would ask the FA to kick the guy off the plane. Maybe he'd learn some respect after spending 10 hours in a holding cell
The OP is a classy guy. Honestly, if that situation happened to me then I would ask the FA to kick the guy off the plane. Maybe he'd learn some respect after spending 10 hours in a holding cell
Sep 1, 2011, 12:14 pm
#56
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
Here, poster, a bulkhead story just for y'all...by David Sedaris.
He didn't want to move, either.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all
He didn't want to move, either.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all
Sep 1, 2011, 2:02 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: AAdvantage Lifetime Platinum, Alaska MVP
Posts: 27
Wow..there are some amazing stories here. I'll share a quick one and then some thoughts on the posts: I was in First on a DFW-ORD flight on an MD-11 and when I arrived at my assigned seat, it was occupied by an AA employee who asked me to move so he could sit next to his friend. I balked, but he said the flight was empty and I could sit anywhere. A few moments later, the Pax who had the seat where I had moved to showed up and ordered me to move. I did and proceeded to tell Mr. AA Employee to take his original seat. He rolled his eyes, muttered something under his breath, and then hovered in the aisle for the entire flight. I mentioned something to the Lead FA and she launched into a sermon about how "these poor guys work so hard..give him a break."
I agree with the person who said "put the Bose headphones on" - that's what I do. A couple of times I've fibbed and said I just had knee surgery and don't want to move. That always works !
As far as the Pax on the MIA-EZE flight, I feel your pain. I would have alerted the Purser immediately as soon as the aggressive behavior started. If that failed, I would go to the Gate Agent - who might have moved you to First. I fly the MIA-EZE route often and the EZE based Crews are awful - lazy and indifferent and sometimes rude. Sounds like that's what you were dealing with.
I agree with the person who said "put the Bose headphones on" - that's what I do. A couple of times I've fibbed and said I just had knee surgery and don't want to move. That always works !
As far as the Pax on the MIA-EZE flight, I feel your pain. I would have alerted the Purser immediately as soon as the aggressive behavior started. If that failed, I would go to the Gate Agent - who might have moved you to First. I fly the MIA-EZE route often and the EZE based Crews are awful - lazy and indifferent and sometimes rude. Sounds like that's what you were dealing with.
Sep 1, 2011, 4:47 pm
#59
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: BSL
Programs: DL, AA, LH
Posts: 43
Next time switch seat if you want to or just "clearly" say NO. And don't even
give them a hand by finding a solution. Its their own business. Don't give them
a plattform to hand you over their victim role anymore...
Happy flying: DALelite
give them a hand by finding a solution. Its their own business. Don't give them
a plattform to hand you over their victim role anymore...
Happy flying: DALelite
Sep 1, 2011, 7:05 pm
#60
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich
Posts: 5,366
Any more than "no thank you" and they think they have permission to negotiate with you.