Where you sit on the plane makes HUGE amount of difference..which is why people poach in the first place, and why my assigned seat is important to me. This importance increases with flight time. Would you really suggest that an exit row asile on a long haul is equal to a last row middle seat on a long haul?? No, not all seats are created equally.

With miles, status, full fare FC, extra rev seats or even basic online snagging of the exit row or aisle/window..and any combination thereof...the FF makes an extra effort to obtain those seats. We do so because of our preferences and knowledge..we know what seats do not relcline, which have extra legroom, which are forbidden from having kids in them, and so forth. We choose them because they are more comfortable for us, and we planned ahead well enough or paid extra to get them. When we book them, they are rightfully ours. We are therefore not happy to be forced to sit elsewhere.

A poacher is typically someone with less knowledge or someone who through luck of the draw ended up in a seat they do not want. A seat switch requestor is similar, and usually someone travelling with a companion and who did not get seats with them.

Their lack of planning and lack of fortune on their part does not constitute an inconveinience on mine. My efforts to obtain my preferred seat should not be undermined by someone who failed to make the same efforts. For a poacher to think that they can simply get squatter's rights is the hight of arrogance. For a switch requestor to get angry that I will not give up my exit row aisle on a 5 hour flight to europe for his last row middle so he can sit with his wife is nearly as bad.

It's war. If I have an awsome seat, I win, the other pax lose. If they cheat, I will take them to task and if the FA supports their squatting or request, I will take the FA to task with his/her supervisors and his/her employer

:td:

One has to wonder if you'd be singing this same tune if there was some kind of equipment swap or irrops that put someone and his/her companion on opposite sides of the cabin. Would you say it's their fault they didn't forsee the change-up? What if we're talking about a parent and small child, or someone with special needs and a companion, or two newlyweds on their honeymoon, or two businesspeople on the way to an important meeting who planned to work together on the plane (I've all of these things happen). I suppose you'd tell all of them to take a hike, right, and be offended at their gall should they politely ask to trade seats, even if it meant giving you a better seat?

:rolleyes:

It's really not that hard to tell the difference between someone politely asking for a small courtesy and someone trying to take advantage of a situation. I'm willing to move almost anywhere when we're talking about the former, and pretty much never when it's the latter.

That's unfortunate. However, it is between the them and airline, and not the responsibility of other passengers.

Fault? No. Problem? Yes.

A foreseeable problem when flying. Don't fly with the child if you're concerned about the possibility.

Still the problem for the airline, not me, though I might be a little more amenable to helping out.

Not my problem or my concern.

Define, "better." The problem is, virtually every time someone has asked me to swap, it was not for a better seat in my opinion. I don't value aisle over window, bulkhead over Row 2 or 3 (in F), etc. I also tend to board early specifically to avoid these kinds of issues and, once I'm "dug-in," I'm not going to be particularly amenable to getting all my stuff together, or having to leave my overhead-bin behind so I'd have to swim upstream upon landing to get my bag.

And rolleyes to you for expecting that ANY passenger has superior rights to a seat that I've booked. Sometimes, flying by plane means not getting or losing the seating you want. Why in the world would you think that is my problem or concern?

That's fine, and that's you.

The parent and small child or the disabled person and caregiver separated for reasons beyond their control, in my experience, are handled by the airline rather than as one passenger request to another. And they darn well should be. KLM or Delta or Northwest has consistently moved other passengers to accommodate, as they should.

As PTravel says, "sometimes, flying by plane means not getting or losing the seating you want" when the airline moves you in such situations to accommodate special seating needs.

Who said anything about "responsibility"? If you trip and fall down in front of me, it's not my fault, and no law obligates me to do something, but it's still common courtesy to lend a hand and ask if everything is all right.

I think we can all agree other pax aren't responsible for two people not sitting together, nor obligated to get them sitting together. But go back to mileage junkie's post. S/he's saying something a bit beyond "I'm not responsible"; s/he's saying, "There is no situation in which I would care about your needs." And that, IMHO, deserves a big :td:

See above. Seriously, why is this so complicated? Sometimes people ask for and/or give little kindnesses. It's called being human. I for one don't stop being human when I walk onto a plane.

Now we get to the point. So let me be clear: Like some other posters, I take a dim view of people who hide their wanting a better seat with a request that I accommodate their desire to play musical chairs. As I said, I don't have difficulty telling the difference. When someone in a shorter-pitch bulkhead or partial-recline last row seat wants to switch -- when there's obviously other ways to do it that leave the asker in a worse seat in order to sit with a companion -- I say no, plain and simple. IME, most of the time people's requests are legitimate. If they're not in your experience, so be it; you were there, not me. But I'm not talking about these situations. I'm talking about someone nicely asking for a favor and doesn't try to take advantage. My original point in responding was to say that anyone who makes a blanket statement that they won't do other people favors (i.e., "I'M the "jacka$$" who won't trade with you...or anyone else, ever, regardless of the reason") earns a :td: from me.

Again with the talk of rights. Who said anyone is entitled to being granted a favor? It's called a "favor" rather than "one's due" precisely because there is no right to it. So what? My :rolleyes:, in case it wasn't clear, is because of the attitude that says I won't do nothin for no one never, not for any refusal to move. If mileage junkie doesn't want to move, so be it. It's his right (see, here the term fits) to say no. But I stick to my original point that anyone who makes blanket statements about not doing a favor for someone regardless of the situation or reason is someone who I hope get's his/hers in spades at some point.

Are you saying you can't tell when someone's asking for a legitimate favor as opposed to trying to take advangage of you?

Problem, nope, but concern? Two words for you: "irrops" and "karma."

Which is not to say you have any obligation to either always or ever switch, but even with tons of advance planning, if you've never been in a position where a switch has been desirable due to events outside your control, well, you're luckier than most of us.

I don't believe in karma. I've been stuck in plenty of irrops situations and simply handled the seating issue myself.

I have been, but I didn't see it as something about which I should bother strangers.

Of course it is. What has that to do with changing seats for people? Do you do that at the theater? Do you switch hotel rooms with people?

And I'm saying that there are very, very few situations in which I would care about your needs. A special needs passenger with an assistant? Yes, I would care. A passenger with a medical problem? Yes, I would care. Honeymooners? Not likely. Parent separated from young child? Not at all.

I'll tell you my definition of a kind human on an aircraft: one who does their best to not impose on other passengers. I am that kind of passenger. I will go to great lengths to ensure that I do not impose. And that is all I ask in return.

It doesn't matter to me whether there are better ways to do it or not. I can't think of any compelling reason (other than the two that I mentioned) to accommodate another passenger's request if it inconveniences me.

And my answer will be, nicely, "Sorry, no."

Well, that's you. I pick my seats with care, particularly long-haul. I don't care if you're separated from your young child, whether or not it's your fault or not -- I'm not a fan of young children on long-hauls, anyway, but as long as neither you or your child don't impose on me and other passengers, I have no particular objection to your being there. I will not, however, go out of my way to accommodate you. Same for newly-weds or businessmen. Take it up with the airline.

If it's like-for-like, or a better seat, in my opinion, and it doesn't inconvenience me, I'll consider switching. Otherwise, don't even bother asking because I won't consider it, regardless of your hard-luck story (with the exception of the two situations I mentioned above). My business colleague and I are flying to HKG in two weeks in C. We'd like to sit together, but we prefer the exit row in the upper deck. As it turns out, on one side the window is taken and on the other side the aisle is taken. We'll board early, take our assigned seats, and ask politely when our seat mates arrive if one would like to switch, aisle-for-aisle or window-for-window. And if the answer's, "no," I suspect my colleague and I will survive the flight just fine.

Exactly. Yet you have said that someone who won't grant the favor isn't acting like a human being. Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- that is just a passive-aggressive entitlement demand.

As I said -- passive-aggressive entitlement demand.

I'm saying it doesn't make any difference to me whether it's a "legitimate favor," or not. My colleague and I will ask a "legitimate favor," and we're offering like-for-like. It doesn't matter -- if our seatmates won't switch, that doesn't make them inhuman, nor will I hope that he or she get there's in spades at some point.

as a person who has traveled with small children in seat restraints, and who must sit next to me, i have found that we get separated regardless of how far in advance i book the flight (indeed, it sometimes feels that i am more likely to be subjected to random seat reassignments when i'm traveling with kid).

but it is absolutely irresponsible for a parent to attempt to impose on another passenger to move for me or my child, without asking the airline to do it first.

if the airline failed to fix it, then i would politely ask, apologize for the imposition, and try to explain that i tried with the airline first. and i'd have some choice words for the airline after the flight.

I'm okay with it if it is an "even exchange"
 

And they usually are. For instance, if I am in 1a, and they want me to go 7a so they can be together, I have no problem with that. However, if I am in 1A, and they want me to go to 30B, I probably would say no. But if the seat is comparable, I have no problem with switching so two people can be together.

But it's been pointed out here and in other threads several times that it can happen that the "comparable" seat turns out not to be, either because there's something about it that didn't bother the original occupant but will bother the new one, or because there's something wrong with it that would bother anyone, which is one reason the original occupant wanted to change!

Of all the the seat swap requests I've been pitched, only once was it for a seat I considered preferable. It was on a red-eye flight LIH-SEA and the aisle seat passenger next to me informed me of her intention to sleep and asked if I'd prefer to switch with her in case I wanted to get up during the flight. I had actually been hoping for an aisle seat to open up, and readily agreed since I hate disturbing sleeping pax when I want to get up.

The only problem was that she waited until after we had started to push back and I didn't want to piss off the screw by doing a chinese fire drill while we were moving on the ground. I told her I'd switch after the seat belt sign went out, to which she muttered something about how she "flies all the time" and blah, blah, blah. She then proceeded to dawn her N/C headset, blanket, and eye mask and went almost immediately unconscious. After we reached cruising altitude I gently tapped her on the shoulder when my soft "excuse me" failed to rouse her and jerked awake like someone had kicked her in the head. I got up to use the lav and when I returned she was in full snore mode. She didn't move an inch until breakfast time.

As an side rant, I also think it's kind of rude to sleep nonstop or spread out too much crap like your laptop when you're in the aisle seat, inhibiting the window seat pax from getting up if they need to. If you must do this, then check with your seat-mate periodically and make sure they have an opportunity to get up without feeling like they're imposing.

Yes it can be a source of real confusion that people have different ideas about which seats are equal, which one is preferable, etc.

I guess most agree that middle seats are less desirable, but the agreement seems to stop there. I prefer aisle, but many among my own family and friends have strong preference for window. I prefer to sit in the front because it is quiet, but some in my circle prefer the back because they think the chance of finding the next seat empty is greater there, and others because the engine sound helps them sleep better. :)

If people really want to sit together, a test of their sincerity would be whether they are willing to "trade down" in order to be together. Instead, many of them only want to "trade up" (from their perspective) and decline a different opportunity to sit together. :confused:

If you have a seat assigned, you don't have to switch seats, if you don't want to.... (I don't)




...but you don't need to be a jacka$$ either, IMHO....;)

Since this was directed at me...I'll respond.

YES, since you present (rare?) hypothetical situations where it truly would be unwise and/or inappropriate to separate people; I can perhaps, maybe, possibly imagine trading seats. But I'm only taking about a parent and a small child, or someone flying with a disabled person. I would have zero sympathy for "two businesspeople on the way to an important meeting," and only infinitesimally more for a honeymooning couple; (certainly not enough to change seats). Ironically, in decades of flying...I've never been in THOSE situations. Always always, someone simply wanted my (better) seat. My most recent example...on a transcon red-eye, a middle-aged man asked if he could have my aisle seat (for his window) just so he could be closer to his buddy across the aisle. I politely told him that I preferred the aisle. Nonetheless, they kept up their much-louder-than-appropriate-at-1:00am, jr. high schoolish gossipy conversation "across" my seat until well into the night when almost everyone (myself included) was trying to sleep.

I'm far from the most frequent flyer, but I find it hard to believe that gate agents would not seat people next to each other (ie...parent and young child) if they clearly needed to be. I can imagine someone who absolutely HAD to sit next to another person, saying "that's ok, we'll wait for the next flight."

Regardless, I stand corrected; there ARE certain extremely specific situations in which I would trade seats. And again, not only has one never come up on a flight I've been on, but (my recent, above example notwithstanding) it is virtually always an INDIVIDUAL, traveling alone who wants my seat. To which my uniform reply is "actually, I'd prefer to sit in my assigned seat."

- MJ