Tipping in the US?
 

I went to a restaurant in Boston last night and the bill (incl. drinks) was $39 ($37 before tax). I paid by credit card and wrote down $45 in the total section. I now found out that $47 has been debited from my credit card from this restaurant. I was under the impression that 15% tip is standard, 20% tip for exceptional service (based on pre-tax amount). Am I wrong? Can the restaurant change the credit card slip after you leave the restaurant?

This is a neighbourhood restaurant (certainly not fine dining) and the party consists of 2 adults and 1 toddler (13 months old who did not eat nor require a highchair).

Legally they should bill you whatever you wrote in the TOTAL line (not what they think they should have been tipped). Your tip was fine anyway. You could go back via your credit card company (do you have your copy of the receipt?)

The restaurant forged a higher price, plain and simple. Call the CC and challenge the charge.

Re tipping in the US, your perceptions are right.

Now stand back and watch about 20 posters say that the entire concept of tipping is "outragous" (mostly folks who live in countries where tipping is not customary, as well as a few uberconservative Americans) while a few posters will defend the practice.

It seems we have to go through this every few months.

You should dispute the charge amount with your credit card company. What the restaurant did is illegal.

Tipping is 100% discretionary. 15-20% is customarybut not obligatory. Even if you had left $0, they have no right to add anything.

No. What they did is fraudulent, period.

Thanks for the responses. I might just leave it as it seems too much hassle for just $2 - but then again I wouldn't want them to do it to anybody else.

You really need to let the credit card company know what is going on. If they are doing it to you they are doing it to others.

As for tipping in the United States, the rule is that you are supposed to generously tip each and every person you come in contact with -- or at least that's what many on this board believe.

You must tip the hotel maid, the taxi driver, the Starbucks girl who takes your coffee order, the busboy and any other person you come in contact with.

This could very well be a mistake. I've seen similar issues on my
credit card charges in the past. I'd suggest you call in. Its not about $2, but
if its a standard practice at this restaurant, they must know that its not
tolerated.

Sorry I did not mean to offend but wanted to know whether I have been undertipping. I will contact my cc company to rectify the situation.

No need to apologize at all... it was a legitimate question. Hope you enjoyed your trip otherwise [reference to a now-deleted post also deleted by Moderator].

I would definitely let the CC company know that the restaurant was fraudulently altering your charge.

Cheers

Agreed.

[reference to a now-deleted post also deleted by Moderator].

When one has a dispute with a vendor, the normal procedure is to first call the vendor to try to settle the dispute, no?

Does everyone on this post immediately call the credit card company when there's an error on a charge?

Btw, this thread has little to do with tipping and much to do with credit card charges.

If this is an on-line statement, it may be that it's showing a 'reserve' from the restaurant (like a hotel or car rental would do), and the actual, signed charges will be correct on your regular statement.

If , however, your charge slip as signed by you has been altered, then you're almost certainly an almost-victim of fraud & both the restaurant and your cc company should be notified.

What $2? You're entitled to the entire charge (in a strict legal sense). In some states, when an illegal act can be established, the damages are tripled, not tripling the $2, but the entire bill.

Go for the gold! Like a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, a salutory lesson for the restaurant may break that old hound from sucking aigs (a phrase which once caused me to be threatened with dire consequences for using on FT).

I would call the retaurant first and speak to the manager. Unless they condone the behavior, I'm sure they don't want staff there that overcharge customers.

Just for the record, I did not remove my own question. Evidently somebody did, the moderator perhaps, but not me.

I wasn't implying anything. OP asked a legit question. A bunch of us responded. Then OP says, in effect, never mind, I'm not gonna do anything about it. I replied, then why ask us our opinion. What's wrong with that?

You, SFO777, on the other hand, resorted to name-calling and making assumptions. Declasse.

It depends on how convenient it is. If I live in OZ and the problem occurred in BOS and I found out about it after I got home, I'd deal with the CC company, especially since I can do it quickly and easily from my online CC account. It is certainly possible that your handwritten tip was misinterpreted as a different number, and thus an honest mistake. But I have personally had this happen to me several times before, and it was NEVER an honest mistake. If you call the restaurant, they will no doubt "take care of it for you," but if they routinely up-charge their customers, they'll continue to do so unless the customers complain to someone outside of the business. I say complain to the credit card issuer.


It started out as a legitimate tipping question and moved on to involve credit card charges. But it is still related to tipping.

Moderator note
 

Members, please, the topic is what steps to take when a higher amount is charged on a card for a tip by a restaurant or travel provider than the cardholder authorized. Personalized comments or by-play arguing with each other have been/will be deleted. Please help keep the thread open by staying on topic and within our FlyerTalk Rules. Thanks! Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

Last year I visited a well-known restuarant very near the pond in Breckenridge, CO. The meal was nice (but not fantastic, considering the price), the service was good. We tipped 15%, I wrote $103.00 on the receipt and duplicated the figures exactly onto my copy.

Later I checked my credit card statement and found it was $108.00 but didn't have time to return since we had to leave. I called the restaurant when I got home (in the UK) and the manager said their copy had the grand total at $108.00, but agreed that the total and tip came to $103.00, but would refund the $5 "if that's what you intended to tip".

I didn't accuse their staff outright, but I said I was very sure it was written as correct 103 and could explain why his read 108. I didn't ask to see a copy, but my 3's have a flat top and cannot be turned into an 8 easily, so it should be obvious to him just looking at it.

I did read a method for easily detecting this sort of thing, I think it was where you just repeat the last two digits reversed as the decimals, eg. in my case I would have writen 103.30, then it appearing as 108.30 would be easy to spot without having to remember or find the receipts. (This assumes the staff don't bother to alter the cents)

There are usually a couple steps in restaurant approving credit card charges.

First they get an authorization for the amount of the bill and sometimes a 20 or 25% tip rounded up to the next dollar. A hold is placed on that amount.

They then put through the charge based exactly on the amount you write on the receipt. They could be batching that, where they process them and they don't get uploaded and settled for a day or two.

Are you sure it was the actual debit and not just the charge to hold it that went through? If it was from when they swipe the card, it will probably correct itself when the actual charge goes through.

If however it's the charge, you should bring it to either their attention or the credit card companies. If you are still in the area I would start with them, they probably just keyed it in wrong or read the receipt wrong.

It is however totally possible they are getting a couple bucks from everybody who hands them a credit card, hoping that most people won't notice or not want to be bothered with it, and could be making a ton of money.

well 1. some restaurants take the bill and auto debt 20% to see if the $ is available on the card and then Reverese it out later.. usually this will take 2-3 days..

if it is anything after that.. hmm yea they did stiff you. Do what I do when I tip

write $5.00 then under it put Five dollars in writiing and sign it..

this way your yellow copy will have both the 5.00 and it written out so it is very hard to dispute

Happened to me a couple of times ... most recently at a "famous" Vietnamese restaurant in the SF ferry building. Spoke to them politely, indicated that this was unacceptable (faxed copy of the the credit card charge slip clearly showing the amount I intended to tip) ... received apologies, a refund check in the mail alongwith a note offering me a free lunch the next time ^

It's what steps the restaurant took against staff perpetrating fraud that has me curious. Unless they condone it? It's one way of passing on their wages bill.

That would be a pre-authorization. It never shows up as a charge.

I've been to some US restaurants whose menus state that a certain minimum gratuity applies.
However, it's usually noted that this applies to larger groups.

One note: the CC company will correct your (my) math, adjusting the total as necessary. Example: a base bill of $98 and a tip of $15 will be charged $113 even if the diner writes in $110 as the total.

IMHO its best to take this directly to the CC company. They are in the best position to see a pattern of fraud by the restaurant. A perfunctory apology and a correction really doesn't do it for me. - and no, I'm not angling for a free meal 'next time'.

Also consider calling the BBB. That really makes some restaurants jump. I personally would not call the restaurant itself because the manager is already supposed to know what's going on there.

I've had this happen once in the last 5 years in the US. A server changed the tip/total for $5 more. It was on my list of things to complain about, but I never did. The restaurant is out of business, so I guess they got what they deserved. :)

Generally, I'd call the restaurant, and ask to speak to the manager. If you don't get satisfaction, then issue a chargeback. Many credit card companies charge $10-$30 for any chargeback, so it will hurt the company, for sure.

Which restaurant (so we can avoid it)?

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8703e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

One of the things this thread brings to light is the unfortunate recent trend of many restaurants to print two white (duplicate) credit card slips, instead of the two-part, no-carbon-required white and yellow slip. When completing the two-part slip, the customer leaves with an exact copy of the original charge slip, making fraudulent alterations to the original easy to detect. With duplicate original slips, the restaurant (or server) is free to claim that the diner mistakenly wrote a different amount on his copy of the slip. If alteration of the original were skillfully done (say by converting 1's to 4's or 7's, or by converting 3's to 8's), I'm not sure how the credit card company would resolve such a dispute.

After this happened to my son (it was also only a couple of dollars) and the restaurant never did straighten it out, he came up with a great idea we've copied. He now carries a pen with green ink. Black, blue, or red are ink colors that are available to people changing the totals, but green ink makes it too noticeable since almost no one has that at the restaurant/hotel/store. ;)

I'm afraid (as earlier posted), I take a harsher perspective than most here....

I was first involved with CCs in 1967, as the bank I worked for took on MC, and I was involved in "signing up" merchants. Perhaps the experience made me "ornery" when it comes to the potential avenues for fraud and abuse (by cardholders, merchants, employee-thieves, etc.).

When you've been "cheated", both societal and legal remedies involve the recovery of not just the amount out of which you been bamboozled, but the entire transaction (and in some states, treble damages). For those who claim that a cheated customer should not get the cost of the entire meal or all the drinks back on the grounds that food and beverage have been consumed and can't be returned, so what? The traditional "rules" established by precedent apply; and the dealer caught dealing from the bottom of the deck or holding aces in his sleeve doesn't just forfeit the pot, but fortune, limb and life....(and certainly local livelihood). If the restaurant discovers the bad act was perpetrated by a waitperson, let it recoup its loss, the entire check, from the scurvy blackguard.

Meanwhile, I want ALL my money back by rescinding the entire transaction through the CC carrier.

The massive growth in the number of folks who dine in restaurants and the "awe" in which so many tend to treat well known (and even "chain") joints which commit gross transgressions in the kitchen and at the cash register shocks me. Our ancestors, at least those of whom could afford a meal in any cafe better than "roadside" would have not hesitated to refuse to pay for unsatisfactory food or service, just as they would have refused to pay for a bed infested with bedbugs or a lack of hot water for a paid bath. Were it the faro dealer who cheated, he would have gotten no more than his poke picked clean, a severe thrashing, and being thrown into the mud of the street (better than being shot down at the table, marked cards still in his hand!).

Well said, amigo!

A tipping question (US hotels)
 

I have a question about tipping in US hotels. If you order room service, and the hotel adds a 17% gratuity (plus tray charge), is the done thing still to leave a tip (written on the signed check or a cash tip)?

Not sure what you mean by the "done thing". Wouldn't you consider 17% tip enough? I would never leave more than that.

If they choose to automatically include a gratuity, then no reason to add more unless they did something extraordinary..... you may already be paying a premium to get the room service.

If the hotel automatically charges 17%, and probably a fixed cost of another couple dollars in addition, I do not tip. If there are no gratuity charges automatically added, I give them a couple dollars for a tip.

Keep in mind that the fixed amount is usually straight to the hotel and a % is usually for the server.

If there is a gratuity already on there - then that is that, though I sometimes add an extra buck or 2 if they have been super helpful.

OTOH, many hotels add a 10% service charge for room service; I do not treat this as a gratuity.

Merging thread with http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=855767

It depends on which country I'm in.

If the U.S., then no I won't tip more. If it's a first-class hotel in a third world country, then I'll give them a handful of local coins worth a buck or so.

The beaming smile I get always makes it worthwhile.

Totally Agree ^

If people are changing 5's for 8's and getting a couple of extra dollars out of it - how different is this really from pick pocketing dollars from your pocket without you knowing?

I would suggest that if you found restaurant staff pick pocketing your money, no matter how small, you'd want more than just your money back and a "we're sorry" in recompense.