THOUGHTS?? - Charge by Weight & Mileage Carbon Offset Program
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
THOUGHTS?? - Charge by Weight & Mileage Carbon Offset Program
Personally, I think it is only a matter of time with current / projected fuel costs and carbon emissions, before a weight based program is initiated. Some would of course parallel this to freight.
I throw out the thought of weight tariff established as a carbon offset program. Combine total passenger weight with luggage (aircraft weight) and apply an incremental charge. I have heard of a standard per pound charge for other carbon offset programs; but, could not access this at the moment.
Being that this is an offet program, it should also factor the mileage flown as well. This concept is already gaining traction around the world.
A formula of total weight x miles flown x (factor) = offset contribution. To streamline the process, the charges could be done in 500 increments for mileage and 50lb increments for total weight.
Further simplification; but, not accurate would be to designate an aircraft weight based system; with, distance traveled. Perhaps not as easy as PFC calculations; but, along the same line of thought. This would also allow airports to estimate revenue benefits subject to passenger counts and O&D data.
Not a penalty; but, a responsibility.
Expendetures from the program would go exclsuively towards "green" airport programs. Reclaimed and recyled water systems, solar arrays, planting of trees, natural light systems, non carbon emitting vehicles, mass transit options, etc.
Airports could only adopt the "green" credit after submitting detail plans and approval for utilization of the funds. Enforcement would include matching deductions of fedaral dollars for any missapopriation.
Carriers can petition for funds if they are ear marked directly for green initiatives such as non-carbon emitting vehicles, market frequency reductions, sustainable material programs, etc. Similar terms as above.
One early beneficiary will be the Denver Airport which would love to have light rail to the city; but, always shot down as it cannot be funded through PFC's. Being a definition of a green program, this would qualify and be embraced.
Although we had little control of the carbon emiited by the aircraft itself outside of lesser weight, we do have control over the amount of carbon emitted to provide the network to facilitate the flight.
Thoughts??
I throw out the thought of weight tariff established as a carbon offset program. Combine total passenger weight with luggage (aircraft weight) and apply an incremental charge. I have heard of a standard per pound charge for other carbon offset programs; but, could not access this at the moment.
Being that this is an offet program, it should also factor the mileage flown as well. This concept is already gaining traction around the world.
A formula of total weight x miles flown x (factor) = offset contribution. To streamline the process, the charges could be done in 500 increments for mileage and 50lb increments for total weight.
Further simplification; but, not accurate would be to designate an aircraft weight based system; with, distance traveled. Perhaps not as easy as PFC calculations; but, along the same line of thought. This would also allow airports to estimate revenue benefits subject to passenger counts and O&D data.
Not a penalty; but, a responsibility.
Expendetures from the program would go exclsuively towards "green" airport programs. Reclaimed and recyled water systems, solar arrays, planting of trees, natural light systems, non carbon emitting vehicles, mass transit options, etc.
Airports could only adopt the "green" credit after submitting detail plans and approval for utilization of the funds. Enforcement would include matching deductions of fedaral dollars for any missapopriation.
Carriers can petition for funds if they are ear marked directly for green initiatives such as non-carbon emitting vehicles, market frequency reductions, sustainable material programs, etc. Similar terms as above.
One early beneficiary will be the Denver Airport which would love to have light rail to the city; but, always shot down as it cannot be funded through PFC's. Being a definition of a green program, this would qualify and be embraced.
Although we had little control of the carbon emiited by the aircraft itself outside of lesser weight, we do have control over the amount of carbon emitted to provide the network to facilitate the flight.
Thoughts??
Last edited by mjcasta; Aug 5, 2008 at 3:18 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: DFW
Programs: DL PM, .6MM; AA Plat; Marriott Platinum Premier
Posts: 4,891
This could lead to some very strange expense report line items... and then clients asking consulting firms to send thinner consultants in order to cut airfare expenses.
#3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eagar AZ 85925
Programs: Miles N More, One World
Posts: 140
Gee, I sure would feel a whole lot better about myself knowing that I was paying for my greenhouse gas contribution.
I think not, just another way to extract another fee to go to some program where the funds are misdirected.
This sounds like material from Penn and Teller.
I think not, just another way to extract another fee to go to some program where the funds are misdirected.
This sounds like material from Penn and Teller.
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SC72
Programs: DL
Posts: 91
For one thing, you should multiply distance by weight, not add them. They are two different measurements.
Secondly, it's an awful idea that promotes making our already-large government even larger and more intrusive. No thanks!
Secondly, it's an awful idea that promotes making our already-large government even larger and more intrusive. No thanks!
#7
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: CO-plat, SPG-plat
Posts: 1,655
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
Costs
This has nothing to do with savings and all to do with reducing the carbon footprint of air transportation. Well thought out, this could lead to the largest "green" modernization of our airports as we know them.
Investment??? $8.00 - $50 per one way based on weight and miles flown. Who pays for it?? The people who use the aviation system, not the tax payers.
Funny how many will challenge a "green" offset which will fund facilities and services which will have substantial long term benefits; but, not lift a brow at the aditional concession fees charged by many airport services to build new facilities; i.e. rental car companies at SFO, DEN, DFW, etx.
Investment??? $8.00 - $50 per one way based on weight and miles flown. Who pays for it?? The people who use the aviation system, not the tax payers.
Funny how many will challenge a "green" offset which will fund facilities and services which will have substantial long term benefits; but, not lift a brow at the aditional concession fees charged by many airport services to build new facilities; i.e. rental car companies at SFO, DEN, DFW, etx.
#9
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,215
I would object to it because I don't believe voluntary carbon offset programs work. I can deal with cap and trade, but the voluntary market is, if you'll pardon the pun 'smoke and mirrors'. The only way to deal with carbon is to reduce your carbon footprint, not offset it by planting a theoretical tree which will get cut down by some poor guy who needs the wood to live, assuming it ever really got planted at all.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,377
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SoFla (formerly NYC Metro)
Programs: DL PM, UA Prem1K, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, IHG Platinum
Posts: 25,694
#12
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,392
#13
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 1,100
The costs of administering a program like this could be significant. Would passengers be weighed at the airport? On what equipment? Who would bear the administrative costs of collecting and distributing the fees? What oversight would be required to ensure that funds are reported, collected, and paid? Might the administrative costs actually exceed the revenue?
Robert
Robert
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag™ DYKWIA: SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night: Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,509
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
EXACTLY right. ^