Thanks CABNcrew.

My interpretation of this thread, is that, "It's my right, so to hell with any one else, so it inconveniences them, tough luck"

My personal solution to kids running around, is a well placed foot in the aisle!

On a recent flight on VA we were put in seats that didn't recline, not good, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

The passenger in front put his seat into full recline and ignored my polite requests to reduce the amount of recline, also ignored the FA's requests.

He was a South African and tried the old "I don't understand", unfortunately for him 2 of us can speak Africaans, so we had a conversation about teaching him some manners when we landed. He immediately called the FA and said we had been threatening him, to which she replied that she had been standing next to us and had heard no such thing (she could not understand the language at all, so was not lying)., but if he felt like that, then there was a spare seat at the back, he took up her offer.

Why are a few people so selfish, a little bit of give and take hurts no-one

Rant over

Let's see if I've got this right:

You wind up in non-reclining seats (which, of course, can always be avoided through the simple expedient of checking ahead of time). You decide that the person in front of you shouldn't recline (or recline as much as he wants to), despite the fact that, evidently, he took the trouble to ensure that he had a reclining seat. You threaten him with violence when he doesn't comply, and then lie to the FA that you did.

And he's supposed to be the selfish one.

The entitlement mindset of some people is just unbelievable.

you missed one part, he tried the 'I dont understand' excuse......so if he can't understand the request he certainly can not understand the threat

So what? The intent of the poster making the threat was certainly that it be understood.

Is the situation really that black and white to you? Seems like some consideration from the person who's seat reclined would have been reasonable. I can't argue with your logic about choosing reclining seats vs. getting assigned a seat that doesn't recline, but I can't say that I disagree with the OP's thought that he's entitled to a little personal space. Doesn't sound like he asked the person in front of him not to recline. Just not to recline as much. A little give and take never hurts, especially in such close quarters.

Yes, it really is that black and white to me. The occupant of the seat is allowed to recline, per the airline. If you want to ask him to limit or eliminate recline for your comfort, you are, at best, asking a gratuitous favor. Favors can be granted or they can be refused. If you are not happy with the space allotted you by the airline, then buy F, fly UA in E+, or don't pick non-reclining seats.

He has a little personal space. He is not, however, entitled to the little bit of personal space that I have. I'm curious. Are you as accommodating of the passenger-of-size who insists that you raise the arm rest so that he can intrude in the little bit of personal space that airline has allocated to you? How about the passenger who tries to usurp the space under his seat that the airline has allocated for your use? What applies in the x and y axis applies in the z access as well -- it's a 3-dimensional world.

When you've paid for my seat, you can tell me what to do with it. Otherwise, I'll decide how much recline I need, thank you. Ask me nicely and, if I'm not trying to sleep and/or it's not a long-haul or red-eye, and I might accommodate you. Demand it as an entitlement and you haven't a chance. Threaten me, and I'll escalate the issue to the captain and, if necessary, the police.

Wow. Threaten a fellow passenger with violence because they reclined their seat?

And then lie to the flight attendant by denying that you made the threat?

Threatening fellow passengers with violence isn't a simple matter of breaking the rules (FARs). It's a criminal act.

CABNcrew: While I can respect your personal opinion about the safest time to recline one's seat, dontcha think the FARs would require that seats stay upright until 10k feet if there was any realistic added danger posed by reclining them at wheels-up instead of waiting until 10k feet?

I'm certain I'll regret posing this question, but here goes anyway: When was the last time a commercial jet aircraft made an "unscheduled landing" (crash) in the US immediately after take-off (or any time prior to 10k feet) where early seat recline made any difference to the survival rate of the passengers?

Let's be realistic. Plane falls back to earth without any notice to pax or FAs right after takeoff from any significant altitude (let's say, more than 500 feet): everyone dies in the resulting fireball.

Different scenario: Plane circles back to runway and makes emergency landing. Everyone lives. What does everyone have an opportunity to do in the minute or three it takes to circle around to land? Put their seatbacks upright before landing.

You might be able to envision a scenario in which the pax and FAs get no notice of an unplanned landing immediately following takeoff that doesn't end like flights 191 or 587. And maybe it could happen. But it's probably very unlikely. So unlikely, in fact, that even the nanny-state FAA doesn't think it's likely enough so as to require that pax keep their seatbacks upright from takeoff to 10k feet.

So here's the simplistic analysis by someone who reclines their seat as the gear are pulled: Either the flight continues uneventfully or we have an unplanned emergency landing. If that landing occurs without any notice to FAs or the pax, we all die, and it matters not whether my seat is reclined or upright. If that landing occurs following notice to the FAs and pax, I'll have ample opportunity to un-recline my seat. And maybe the FAA has formed a similar conclusion.

Ooops -- missed this. I actually did this once, quite a number of years ago. On a Southwest flight from LAS to BUR, the young adult pax seated behind my elderly mother decided that kicking the seat was fine and, after being cautioned by the FA 3 times to desist, hauled off and kicked the seat so hard that my mother doubled over. I called the FA over, explained what happened, said it was a battery and I wanted the police to meet the plane. My intent was, solely, to intimidate the pax into behaving. However, when we landed at BUR, the police were present (in force!) and pulled the pax out of line as we were exiting. We were offered the opportunity to press charges, but declined to do so out of the goodness of our hearts, primarily because this young woman was so terrified that I was reasonably sure she'd never pull that stunt again.

I suppose many people know already. but the "Do not use electronics during take off or landing" is an empty threat. Basically FAA requires that all electronic components in a plane is rigorously tested and certified, etc. But since its almost impossible to certify all the electronics passengers bring in individually for their interference risk, etc. they just ask everyone to turn it off. In reality, nothing really would happen. So getting overworked about someone keeping their cellphone on is just ridiculous, and I'd rather have the option of listening to my iPod (I know it's only like 20 minutes or so) for the time being.

*Passed on to me by some engineer I worked under while interning with a major aviation electronics manufacturer. He had been there for 25 years and a commercial pilot license holder.

I never commented on whatever threats were made, so please save the lecture on that point for the OP. I never condoned such action.

I won't argue with your point of view because, by the letter, you are correct on all points. I would like to think that asking you to recline one less inch wouldn't cause you undue suffering, but, as you point out, that's your decision. Seems like the world would be a slightly easier place to manage if attitudes weren't quite so stringent and defensive. I can't really answer the hypotheticals you presented because of the lack of information on other variables. In the case of a POS, I'd probably ask the FA if there was another seat available for me or the POS. If not, I probably wouldn't want to have the armrest raised. If someone wants to use the space under my seat or my feet and it's not imposing on me, I'm probably going to let it slide. If a fellow pax declines my request to not recline his/her seat so much, I have to live with that or find another place to sit. Generally I find that I'm a pretty polite guy and folks are generally willing to meet me halfway on things of this nature.

I do not think I will like it when you strangle me with my own earbuds. For the record, it is an MP3 player I am using during takeoff & landing, not an IPod.

Fair enough.

Like I said, ask me nicely and I probably would (and have in the past). I guess I've run into too many people who think they are entitled to impose on me. See here, for example: http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost....0&postcount=10

I'm a little more militant than that. I would do everything you've listed, but I would also refuse to share my seat with a stranger and would escalate the issue through the FA, purser and captain, if necessary. Bottom line: either deplane the POS or give me an IDB.

"If they're not imposing on me," is the operative phrase, however. I don't care what anyone does if it doesn't impose on me.

And, because you're a pretty polite guy, I would probably meet you halfway as well.

For the record, an iPod plays MP3. However, I'm curious. Why do you think you're an exception to the airline's policies and procedures?

my travel has been reduced to dca-dfw-dca. us & aa do the nonstops.

on aa, somewhere in the range of 15-20 min after takeoff and before landing, the seatbelt sign is turned off.

on us, the light goes off after 90 min, and back on 60 min before landing(flight is 2.5-3hrs). everybody gets up and "feel(s) free to move about the plane" as soon as we get past the white house.

the seatbelt sign is some form of a government reg, and violating that light is a few years of hard time in a cuban resort with all the water you want, and then some.

Unfortunately our TravelBuzz threads which discuss the subject of seat reclining and related topics are short-lived because they invariably devolve into an argument among members with attendant accusations and personalizations. Sadly, this thread is no different and is therefore closed. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.