Don't know if it's legal to change nappies in one's seat but I certainly found it very inconsiderate, unhygienic and stunk the area out.

One of the times the mother handed a dirty nappy to cabin crew during meal service (yes the cabin crew was distributing meals) :eek: (I was quite shocked to see it). She rightly refused to take it, but it was incredibly rude and stupid of the mother to even try.

Some parents just don't think. Others are swimming in their own pools of entitlement. It reminds me of this 911 call.

My wife and I do our level best in minimizing how much our toddler disturbs other passengers, whether we're at the front of the plane or the back. We usually succeed, and have received some very nice compliments and appreciative looks in return for our efforts.

If we can do it, I don't see what anyone else can't. Unless there's some mitigating circumstance, no parent should expect the rest of society to pick up the slack for their lack of parenting.

I've been one of those mommies changing my kid in the seat, but ONLY because it was the first hour of a 3-hour flight and the lav was not equipped with a changing table and - I am NOT kidding - the FA offered up the seat or the floor as my only alternatives. With that said I know it didn't excuse the offense caused to other pax and I would not have dreamed of handing a dirty diaper to an FA. I guess my point here is to make it known that some of us offenders do feel some shame about such things and in my instance I feel the airline let everyone down by not providing appropriately-equipped lavs.

BrokerGal has a point (although I would STILL get grossed out if she changed diapers next to me).

This was on the news today...

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/dispute...25074609990001

The airlines are killing us...slowly but surely...one passenger at a time!:(

Why didn't you check with the airline to see if they had facilities to accommodate your needs before booking? I don't care whether you feel shame or not -- it's not only disgusting and offensive, it's dangerous. Fecal contamination can be deadly to those with compromised immune systems, the elderly, etc.

I don't know that that would have completely solved the problem - how many times has there been a last-minute change in aircraft (more than once in my experience)? And would you have been any less disgusted or offended if I had had my kid sitting next to you in a stinky diaper for the remaining 2 hours of the flight? I guess if you "don't care", you don't care but you must recognize that there are some of us doing all we can do with what the airlines give us to work with - not much in many cases.

Then perhaps you should wait a couple of years to fly with your child.

I really don't understand why you think it is okay to make your problem the problem of strangers who are flying with you. I don't ask other passengers to put up with impositions that I create -- it never would occur to me to do so. Your position seems to be, "I did my best, so you have to put up with it." Why?

I need a window seat when I fly. It's very important to me because I have a mild flying phobia. I always book a window seat. Sometimes, the airline will change aircraft and try to put me in a middle or aisle. I could:

1. Board any way and appropriate someone else's window seat, telling them, "I did my best -- deal with it!"

or

2. I could tell the airline, "Sorry, I can't fly in an aisle seat. What's the soonest you can get me out on a flight with an available window?"

I've done the latter numerous times. I would never presume to do the former, and here we're merely talking about whether I would be rude to a stranger. In your case you are, literally, creating a health risk.

I just don't understand.

Oh, I see now we're grasping at straws to make our case:rolleyes:

I do not think it is ok for anyone to be offended or inconvenienced - but I think it is the fault of the airlines, if they accept infant bookings, to not provide an equipped lav to accommodate infant pax. You cannot possibly believe that the airlines are not at least somewhat culpable here and that the solution is for families to refrain from travel rather than for the airlines to provide the bare necessities.

Sorry, didn't see the window seat scenario before replying - agree one can figure out how and when to fly on the right aircraft, but it still doesn't solve the last-minute change of aircraft issue.

Believe me, I would love the perfect solution my friend but the world isn't always perfect. Failure to accept anything less has got to be a drag sometimes, no?

No, we are not. I apologize because I edited my earlier post before I saw that you already responded. You might wish to review my counter-example.

Then you need to take it up with the airlines. You may have a legitimate gripe, but it is with them. That doesn't invest you with the right to impose on strangers. This goes across the board, e.g. the overweight passenger doesn't have the right to encroach on another's seat because airline seats are too narrow (or two adjacent seats weren't available for a given flight). A passenger's special needs are just that: special to that passenger. It's certainly not the responsibility of strangers to see that they are met, nor to put with the consequences if they are not.

It is the responsibility of families not to impose on others, which is the responsibility of all passengers.

My apologies for the late edit.

Why doesn't it address the last-minute change of aircraft issue? Why, when you board, can't you poke your head in the lav and, if there is no changing table, go back to the GA and say I need to change to an aircraft where there is one? It's what I have to do when there is a last minute aircraft change and I can't get my window seat.

There may not be a perfect solution, but there is one that doesn't involve imposing on strangers (and exposing them to fecal coliform bacteria -- do an FT search on the subject and you'll see the opinion of an MD FTer about this). Just as, for me, the perfect solution would be a guaranteed window seat, in the real world I have to incur inconvenience because of my special need. How is that different for you? Yes, taking a later flight may be inconvenient, but it is a compromise solution that allows you to fly without imposing on others, just as it is for me. It seems, however, that you're saying that you'll be considerate as long as it's not too inconvenient, but if "consideration" entails taking another flight or forgoing flying altogether for awhile, then forget it.

Which brings me back to my original question: why do you think it is acceptable to make your problem the problem of strangers on an aircraft?

Hey!!! NO fighting...
 

Please take personal arguments to private messaging.

Should've, could've, would've...enough!!!

I started this thread so that we could vent about airlines and obnoxious passengers,
NOT for FTers to argue with each other.:(

Now, play nice. Thank you!

This is kind of related to the "don't impose on the rest of us" sub-thread going on here. (BTW, BrokerGal, as a parent I do sympathize...even if we do our best sometimes it isn't enough)

My wife and I were on a flight a few years back, I think it was UA, probably YVR-ORD. Just before the plane departed, a FA came onto the PA and announced that passengers in the five rows in front of and behind row 17 were forbidden from eating peanuts or food with peanuts in them, as one of the adult passengers had an extreme allergy.

Despite being generally tolerant of the inconveniences of air travel (rude, inconsiderate people being the stand-out exception) I found myself surprisingly (and perhaps irrationally?) irritated by this edict. I don't generally eat peanuts, so no loss there, but somehow it tripped my wire. I never really thought it through. Odd reaction.

"BrokerGal has a point (although I would STILL get grossed out if she changed diapers next to me)."

The complaint, in this case, should be squarely made by EVERYONE to the airline CEO for the equipment. If you're going to allow children on a 3 hour flight, including those who wear diapers, then you damn well better have facilities in the airplane. This is different from the situation described before, but I get the feeling it was an airline trying to cheap out and fly an RJ on a route not meant for an RJ.

"Why doesn't it address the last-minute change of aircraft issue? Why, when you board, can't you poke your head in the lav and, if there is no changing table, go back to the GA and say I need to change to an aircraft where there is one? It's what I have to do when there is a last minute aircraft change and I can't get my window seat."

So every passenger should do this to make sure the bathroom works for their needs? The issue here was the equipment. I don't think anyone would fly on a 3 hour flight with no lavatory. That's essentially what the airline did and I'm pretty sure it was something like an Embraer being put on a route that would be better service by a Boeing plane. Certainly there's a gripe there, but it's not with the passenger. It's with the airline for choosing equipment that is not suitable for the needs of modern transit. You were basically facing the choice of a feint smell of poop for 3 hours along with 2 hours of a crying uncomfortable baby or a short period of a more intense smell followed by a calm baby.

I'm all for people taking care of their own actions, but in this case, it's the airline that is at fault.

In terms of the severe nut allergy, if the person has such a strong allergy being in a tin can at 35k feet and depending upon people being awake/alert enough to follow instructions around what they can and can not eat is a bit much. No doubt one of those rows could be filled with a mom and two kids who had planned to have PB&J for lunch who are now going hungry. Someone with an allergy that bad is a great candidate for ground travel.

I'll just complain about the seat-based diaper changing, thank you.

That's right. If you have a special need, make sure it is met. I know people who have bad backs and need to recline. The first thing they do when they sit down in an airline seat is check the recline. How difficult is that?

The issue is not a "faint smell of poop" (and, in my experience, it is hardly faint), but creation of a dangerous condition by spreading fecal coliform contamination on the seat (and in an area where people eat). The parent's choice is to get off the plane if the plane isn't equipped to provide for the parent's needs.

Of course it's the airline that is at fault -- the parent should take it up with the airline and not subject strangers, whose fault it most definitely is not, to a seat diaper change.