vysean

Looking for advice on how to handle this or at least some confirmation that I'm in the right or in the wrong on this one...

Stayed at a hotel last month in Ireland. Check-in went like this:

Me: Do you have any rooms with two beds available for tonight?
FD: Yes.
Me: What is the cost for one room with two beds?
FD: Ninety Euro.
Me: Okay, I'd like one room with two beds please.
FD: (Gets paperwork and gives me key).

She said something else (I think about the restaurant/bar) and I mentioned that "we're going to go drive the Ring of Kerry and won't be back for a while".

I was staying with a friend. We had stayed at another hotel the previous night (a Hilton) and were staying two more nights in different cities after this stay. Upon checkout, I was charged for something from the bar and my room rate doubled (they charged a quantity of two x 90 Euro).

They doubled the rate because, according to them, the quoted rate was a per-person rate. My statement of "fraud" in the title reflects that they never stated such upon check-in. Perhaps per-person is entirely common in that town, with that hotel, or in Ireland, but when you're dealing with tourists and foreigners, wouldn't it be in the best interests of everyone to explicitly define things such as room rates. Why else would I ask for two beds, and how would they know there were two people in the room anyways? Asking for two beds should be an instant indication that there could be two (or more) people staying in a room.

All the quoted rates for the Hilton hotels in Ireland are per-room, not per-person. I understand B&Bs charge per person, but I've never experienced hotels charging like that.

I had inquired about another hotel that night (also a Clarion/Choice property), and they quoted 119 Euro per night for the room - they mentioned it slept five and I said I only needed a room for two people. So it seems that even other hotels within the same family quoted per-room and not per-person.

Do I have any recourse? Yes, I've learned from the experience, but it seems like extremely poor customer service to jack the rate on checkout without warning. There were no signs stating rates are quoted per-person (I took a photo of the check-in/out area), and I was told I should have checked the notice behind the door in the room. How could I have checked the in-room notice without first agreeing to a room rate and getting the key? How often do any of you check the rate notice on the door in your room after you've checked-in and agreed to a rate?

Sorry, this is probably some kind of stupid newbie mistake, but it's frustrating how the hotel handled it. My credit card company can't/won't do anything since I can't show them the earlier quoted rate (verbal upon check-in).

I think my only recourse is to follow up with the parent company (Choice Hotels) or lodge a complaint with the Irish Board of Tourism, but I wouldn't want to do the latter without some feedback from fellow FTers.

BTW, this was the crappiest 4-star rated hotel I've ever stayed in. Looks nice on the outside, rooms are nicely decorated, but the actual beds/bedding and bathrooms are quite sub-par IME.

Thanks for any advice/information! Sorry if I'm just being stupid (please be gentle... )

Sean

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7130e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

Were you asked to sign or initial anything upon check in to confirm the rate?

Jaimito Cartero

I would have refused to pay upon checkout, or certainly have disputed the credit card charge. I had an online booking in Madrid last year, and there was no notation that there were additional charges for children (2 adults, 1 teenager). Nothing was said upon check-in, but when leaving, they had jacked the price up 30 Euro a night! I refused, and showed all my paperwork requesting three beds. No mention of any other fees. After a bit of saying, "Oh that's the standard charge", they agreed that I was correct, and off to the airport we went.

I'd be pissed off too. Many European hotels are way overpriced. I Hotwired a hotel at Gatwick that we stayed at over the weekend. Over $200 for one night, and then the airport shuttle cost $5US per person, each way to go the one mile to the hotel!

jimbo99

Whatever the alleged local custom and practice, your conversation seemed clear enough to me. You were quoted on a "per room" basis because that is how you asked the question. If they wanted to add the "per person" qualifier, they should have stated that or it would have to be obvious that it was implied despite the way you asked. ("officious bystander test"? You could google that one...)

Irrelevant in my non-legally-qualified-opinion. The contract was already made by the time you got to the room. I remember there was some English precedent concerning the very issue of notices on the door in hotel rooms. I doubt whether Irish law is particularly different in this respect. Of course had you noticed it, a clarification might have prevented the current mess.

Think I'd write a letter/fax to the hotel stating your claim clearly and asking for a refund. If that fails, then take the actions you propose. You could sue them, but I suppose that's hassle if you're not likely to be in Ireland for a while. Depends a bit on what they say - I feel if they just try to rely on the notice on the door as their defence, a court might not be sympathetic. On the other hand they might wonder why you didn't refuse to pay the bill when presented with it.

grouse

I would have refused to pay. By paying the full amount on check-out you admitted that it was due. It would have been different if you were, say, coerced because they decided to charge you double in advance when you arrived, but there was no reason to overpay on check-out if you think you owed less.

jimbo99

Are you sure about this? Not saying you're wrong... just want to know if you have an authority for this..

jpatokal

Getting back money that has already been paid is considerably harder than not paying it in the first place.

vysean

I don't believe so. I presume I would have been provided this upon checkout to sign/confirm, and that was not the case. Sorry, it's been about two months and I don't remember if I had to sign anything on check-in.

vysean

Just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone for your responses.

My friend told me I shouldn't have paid (of course, this was after I had checked out).

I agree that that might have been a good idea, but at the time I was trying to keep things amicable, wasn't thinking clearly (I was pretty po'd at how it was being handled, especially when the wife of the owner started arguing), and didn't really want to find out how the Irish police handle skipping out on a bill.

If it were here in the States, I'd have no problem refusing the bill, as I (like to think I) know what my rights are. Outside of the US, I'm not sure what my rights are with regards to falsely-advertised rates at hotels, so I wouldn't want to flatly refuse to pay for the room.

I guess I'll follow-up with the parent company and see what can be done.

Thanks again for your responses - it's nice to know I'm not completely nuts...

Sean

grouse

James v Biou, Owen v Flack (1826) 2 Sim & St 600 at 606.

I don't know if this is still controlling law in Ireland. I would be surprised if the principle had changed.

TRRed

Several years ago when heading toward Switzerland, I reserved a room, requesting a double bed (on a prior trip to Europe I ended up several times with beds which seemed short). The price for one person was stated by the hotel, and my reservation request was clearly written in first person singular. When the person met me at the train station, he was apparently expecting 2 people, but I didn't think about it further. When I went to check out, the hotel attempted to charge me an additional 50% since I was in a room with a double bed, as they had interpreted the double bed request to be for 2 people. I resisted and they eventually removed the upcharge. From that I learned to be explicit in such requests. But on checking in, it seems to me that knowing/ learning there would only be one person in the room despite their assumptions, they should have mentioned their intention to charge extra or offered me another room.

TrayflowInUK

Booked a place at a small hotel in the Lake District (UK) about 3 yrs ago w/ my wife. They had a nice website but you had to call to book, so we rang them up and asked them what specials were on. They quoted a dinner, bed, and breakfast rate of £80 (IIRC). That seemed pretty steep considering that many UK B&Bs were charging £25/person, but this was the Lake District in late August/early September, the hotel looked pretty nice, and dinner was included. So we booked the place and decided we'd have two nights splurging.

Well, after ringing the Mrs. went back to her computer and looked through the website some more and noticed that the standard room rates were listed as per-person. So that got her thinking... she rang back and the hotel to confirm that the cost was per night, and they said, no, it's per person per night! So were were looking at £320 for a two night stay.

We decided to cancel, naturally, and phoned the hotel back (this was about 4 wks in advance of our stay). They absolutely stated that this was non-cancellable and our CC would be charged regardless of whether we showed up or not. She had booked the room with a young-sounding girl (it later turned out that the hotel uses student internships) who had obviously never said anything about per-person. I got on the phone and asked for the manager, and he stood by his staff stating that we had booked the room and we knew it was pppn. I replied by saying that no one ever said it was pppn, and, IME, hotels in UK are usually per night while B&Bs are usually pppn, and his place was listed as a hotel. He again refused to budge. This went on for about 10 minutes and it was all I could do to keep it civil. He was adamant that their training procedures are very specific and there is no way his staff would have failed to tell us the rates were pppn.

I phoned my CC company and asked them what I should do. They said (1) you can't dispute a charge in advance, and (2) we would probably lose any claim if we actually stayed in the hotel, and (3) they couldn't say what would happen if we didn't stay in the hotel, but had our credit card charged anyway.

So in the end we sucked it up and stayed there.

The hotel was actually pretty nice, the scenery wasa beautiful, the food was good, and the room well-appointed. Really, it was a B&B and not a hotel, but it was definitely a bit hoity-toity (sp?). I hated every minute because I was so pissed off at them.

Lesson learned: even though I had already lived and travelled extensively in the UK for 3 yrs by the time this happened, I had never come across this. IME, B&Bs were always pppn and hotels were always pn. Always check and double-check what the total charge will be in advance, this applies to the continent as well. Every place is a little different and forewarned is forearmed!

peachfront

I don't see how you are being stupid. Never been to Ireland but the room rates on the door in the United States bear no relationship to the actual room rate but are instead several times the actual room rate. My favorite example: Years ago I was comped a suite at Treasure Island in Vegas that I know was frequently being offered on their then-new Internet site for $67 a night. Back of the door: $1,100 a night! So room usually given to gamblers for free, sometimes being rented for $67, but the door boasts $1,100!

Take home: checking the door means nothing to me as an American traveler. I would have no way to know that it does mean something in Ireland. In my opinion what counts is what you were told to your face.

But I digress. Here's what I would do as a practical matter: I would dispute the claim, in writing, with the credit card company. When I have a dispute of this nature, I usually pay off everything else on that card except the disputed portion and I won't use the card again until the disputed portion is removed to my satisfaction. Make sure your complaint letter focuses on the actual issue. Don't throw in little comments about how it was not really a 4 star hotel. Save that stuff for tripadvisor.com. If you have a million little random complaints, it makes it look like you are just trying to get out of the bill. Focus on the actual fraud.

I don't think you gave up your rights with the credit card company just by paying the bill when you checked out. If you had not complained to the manager and said nothing, then came back later, you did not make a "good faith" effort to resolve the matter on the spot. But you say you did speak up, and in fact had manager and his wife yelling at you, in a foreign country where you didn't know your rights...you did all you could be expected to do, I think. So I think your right to dispute the charge is still alive.

lewisc

If the OP is still following this thread...What happens when you try to book this property on the web? Is the rate per person? Is the rate similar to what you wound up paying?

I think you'd have more grounds to complain (credit card dispute) if the hotel normally quotes a per room price.

Elizabeth W.

I also had a similar situation in Vegas. A group of us rented several rooms at a hotel just a block or two off the strip. We each paid ~$47 for the room. The rack rate on the door was over $700!