Department of Transportation Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
Jul 7, 2007, 6:02 pm
#1
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Department of Transportation Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
I did a search and didn't find any prior postings about this, sorry if I missed it.
I came across these (here and here ) pages referring to proposed changes in the US DOT mandated IDB compensation rules.
One change would be to have the rule apply to planes with 30 or more seats, rather than the current 60. This make most RJs and many regional prop planes subject to the rules.
The DOT is also considering increasing the payout amount, which is currently 100% of the one way ticket price (capped at $200), or twice that, depending on how long the IDB'ed pax is delayed in getting to their destination. IIR, those figures date back 20 or 30 years.
At some point there will be a comment period, I do not know exactly how that will be advertised, or how to go about registering comments, but I assume public input will be allowed. If anyone here is familiar with the rule making process, and can provide some input on how it works, and especially how to comment on the rule changes, I would appreciate it.
I came across these (here and here ) pages referring to proposed changes in the US DOT mandated IDB compensation rules.
One change would be to have the rule apply to planes with 30 or more seats, rather than the current 60. This make most RJs and many regional prop planes subject to the rules.
The DOT is also considering increasing the payout amount, which is currently 100% of the one way ticket price (capped at $200), or twice that, depending on how long the IDB'ed pax is delayed in getting to their destination. IIR, those figures date back 20 or 30 years.
At some point there will be a comment period, I do not know exactly how that will be advertised, or how to go about registering comments, but I assume public input will be allowed. If anyone here is familiar with the rule making process, and can provide some input on how it works, and especially how to comment on the rule changes, I would appreciate it.
Jul 8, 2007, 10:50 pm
#2
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Proposed changes to federal regulations are publicized in the Federal Register. Instructions for submitting comments will be included in the Federal Register whenever it is posted.
Jul 9, 2007, 8:52 am
#3
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Department of Transportation Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
DOT 67-07
Contact: Bill Mosley, Tel.: (202) 366-4570
Monday, July 9, 2007
DOT Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
The U.S. Department of Transportation today asked for public comment on possible changes to the rules governing airline oversales, or “bumping,” including a possible increase in the maximum compensation due to passengers bumped from oversold flights.
The Department asked for comment on several proposals that could change the compensation totals airlines are required to provide.
The bumping rules were first adopted in 1962 to balance the rights of passengers with the needs of air carriers to minimize the effect of passengers with reservations who do not take their flight. If a flight is oversold, the airline must first seek volunteers who are willing to give up their seats in return for compensation offered by the airline. The airline may bump passengers involuntarily if not enough of them volunteer, and these passengers are eligible for cash compensation in most circumstances. The rule applies to passengers bumped from an oversold flight that departs without them, not to those affected by delayed or canceled flights.
Under the current rule, if the airline can arrange alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within two hours of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight – or four hours on international flights -- the compensation is the amount of the fare to the passenger’s destination with a $200 maximum. If the airline cannot meet these deadlines, the amount of compensation doubles, with a $400 maximum. These payments are in addition to the value of the passenger’s ticket, which the passenger can use for alternate transportation or have refunded if not used. There are occasions when airlines are not required to pay compensation, for example, where the passenger is provided alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight.
The Department asked for comment on five proposals: increasing the $200 compensation limit to $624 and the $400 limit to $1,248; increasing the compensation limits to $290 and $580, respectively; doubling the compensation limits to $400 and $800; eliminating all compensation limits and making compensation equal to the value of the ticket with the payment doubling for longer delays; or leaving the current limits in place.
The Department’s notice also asked for comment on other possible changes to the bumping rule, such as extending the rule to aircraft having 30 to 60 seats, which are not currently covered, and clarifying the criteria airlines may use in deciding the order in which passengers will be bumped.
Comments on the Department’s Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking are due in 60 days. The notice will be available tomorrow on the Internet at http://dms.dot.gov, docket OST-01-9325. Comments also will be posted at this site. Further information on the Department’s bumping rules is available at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking.
-END-
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U.S. Department of Transportation · 400 7th St SW · Washington DC 20590 · 202-385-HELP (4357)
Contact: Bill Mosley, Tel.: (202) 366-4570
Monday, July 9, 2007
DOT Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
The U.S. Department of Transportation today asked for public comment on possible changes to the rules governing airline oversales, or “bumping,” including a possible increase in the maximum compensation due to passengers bumped from oversold flights.
The Department asked for comment on several proposals that could change the compensation totals airlines are required to provide.
The bumping rules were first adopted in 1962 to balance the rights of passengers with the needs of air carriers to minimize the effect of passengers with reservations who do not take their flight. If a flight is oversold, the airline must first seek volunteers who are willing to give up their seats in return for compensation offered by the airline. The airline may bump passengers involuntarily if not enough of them volunteer, and these passengers are eligible for cash compensation in most circumstances. The rule applies to passengers bumped from an oversold flight that departs without them, not to those affected by delayed or canceled flights.
Under the current rule, if the airline can arrange alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within two hours of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight – or four hours on international flights -- the compensation is the amount of the fare to the passenger’s destination with a $200 maximum. If the airline cannot meet these deadlines, the amount of compensation doubles, with a $400 maximum. These payments are in addition to the value of the passenger’s ticket, which the passenger can use for alternate transportation or have refunded if not used. There are occasions when airlines are not required to pay compensation, for example, where the passenger is provided alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight.
The Department asked for comment on five proposals: increasing the $200 compensation limit to $624 and the $400 limit to $1,248; increasing the compensation limits to $290 and $580, respectively; doubling the compensation limits to $400 and $800; eliminating all compensation limits and making compensation equal to the value of the ticket with the payment doubling for longer delays; or leaving the current limits in place.
The Department’s notice also asked for comment on other possible changes to the bumping rule, such as extending the rule to aircraft having 30 to 60 seats, which are not currently covered, and clarifying the criteria airlines may use in deciding the order in which passengers will be bumped.
Comments on the Department’s Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking are due in 60 days. The notice will be available tomorrow on the Internet at http://dms.dot.gov, docket OST-01-9325. Comments also will be posted at this site. Further information on the Department’s bumping rules is available at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking.
-END-
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U.S. Department of Transportation · 400 7th St SW · Washington DC 20590 · 202-385-HELP (4357)
Last edited by BumpMe!; Jul 9, 2007 at 8:58 am
Jul 9, 2007, 9:01 am
#4
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OK.... how did they ever come up with $624 or $1,248 as compensation limits?
Any significance to those numbers?
Any significance to those numbers?
Jul 9, 2007, 9:09 am
#5
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I'm interested. Not that I expect my comments will be considered against the powerful airline lobby, but what the hell...I could pretty much assemble a series of comments from posts I've already made here.
Yes, they should cover RJ's. Duh. Everybody uses RJ's today, and fundamentally - for the purpose of overbooking rules - they should be treated the same as a mainline jet.
Eliminate the compensation caps. Make it a function of hours delayed. $1248 might be sufficient for many IDB's, but it definitely isn't sufficient for all.
Finally - and I'm not sure how they can legislate this other than making the IDB rules have teeth - somehow make the airlines do what they used to do, which is actively seek volunteers with meaningful compensation in the form of vouchers or whatnot. Lately, I've seen them either offer weak compensation that nobody takes, or simply skip it and go directly to IDB.
Is there a link to a page where we can provide comments?
Yes, they should cover RJ's. Duh. Everybody uses RJ's today, and fundamentally - for the purpose of overbooking rules - they should be treated the same as a mainline jet.
Eliminate the compensation caps. Make it a function of hours delayed. $1248 might be sufficient for many IDB's, but it definitely isn't sufficient for all.
Finally - and I'm not sure how they can legislate this other than making the IDB rules have teeth - somehow make the airlines do what they used to do, which is actively seek volunteers with meaningful compensation in the form of vouchers or whatnot. Lately, I've seen them either offer weak compensation that nobody takes, or simply skip it and go directly to IDB.
Is there a link to a page where we can provide comments?
Jul 9, 2007, 12:29 pm
#6
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I think that compensation levels should be indexed for inflation instead of remaining static for three decades.
Perhaps also require airlines to indemnify IDB'd passengers for any and all economic damages resulting from the IDB.
Finally put teeth into Rule 240 so that next time I fly WN from BWI-BNA for example and get IDB'd then WN would be required to put me on the next flight available on ANY airline (even if F is the only class available) rather than make me wait 8+ hours for the next WN flight with seats available.
Perhaps also require airlines to indemnify IDB'd passengers for any and all economic damages resulting from the IDB.
Finally put teeth into Rule 240 so that next time I fly WN from BWI-BNA for example and get IDB'd then WN would be required to put me on the next flight available on ANY airline (even if F is the only class available) rather than make me wait 8+ hours for the next WN flight with seats available.
Jul 9, 2007, 6:53 pm
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Proposed changes to federal regulations are publicized in the Federal Register. Instructions for submitting comments will be included in the Federal Register whenever it is posted.
Jul 9, 2007, 8:28 pm
#8
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Department of Transportation Seeks Comments on Airline Bumping Rule
Not sure what fourm to put this in, I received this email today from the department of transportation:
The U.S. Department of Transportation today asked for public comment on possible changes to the rules governing airline oversales, or “bumping,” including a possible increase in the maximum compensation due to passengers bumped from oversold flights.
The Department asked for comment on several proposals that could change the compensation totals airlines are required to provide.
The bumping rules were first adopted in 1962 to balance the rights of passengers with the needs of air carriers to minimize the effect of passengers with reservations who do not take their flight. If a flight is oversold, the airline must first seek volunteers who are willing to give up their seats in return for compensation offered by the airline. The airline may bump passengers involuntarily if not enough of them volunteer, and these passengers are eligible for cash compensation in most circumstances. The rule applies to passengers bumped from an oversold flight that departs without them, not to those affected by delayed or canceled flights.
Under the current rule, if the airline can arrange alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within two hours of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight – or four hours on international flights -- the compensation is the amount of the fare to the passenger’s destination with a $200 maximum. If the airline cannot meet these deadlines, the amount of compensation doubles, with a $400 maximum. These payments are in addition to the value of the passenger’s ticket, which the passenger can use for alternate transportation or have refunded if not used. There are occasions when airlines are not required to pay compensation, for example, where the passenger is provided alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight.
The Department asked for comment on five proposals: increasing the $200 compensation limit to $624 and the $400 limit to $1,248; increasing the compensation limits to $290 and $580, respectively; doubling the compensation limits to $400 and $800; eliminating all compensation limits and making compensation equal to the value of the ticket with the payment doubling for longer delays; or leaving the current limits in place.
The Department’s notice also asked for comment on other possible changes to the bumping rule, such as extending the rule to aircraft having 30 to 60 seats, which are not currently covered, and clarifying the criteria airlines may use in deciding the order in which passengers will be bumped.
Comments on the Department’s Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking are due in 60 days. The notice will be available tomorrow on the Internet at http://dms.dot.gov, docket OST-01-9325. Comments also will be posted at this site. Further information on the Department’s bumping rules is available at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking.
-END-
The U.S. Department of Transportation today asked for public comment on possible changes to the rules governing airline oversales, or “bumping,” including a possible increase in the maximum compensation due to passengers bumped from oversold flights.
The Department asked for comment on several proposals that could change the compensation totals airlines are required to provide.
The bumping rules were first adopted in 1962 to balance the rights of passengers with the needs of air carriers to minimize the effect of passengers with reservations who do not take their flight. If a flight is oversold, the airline must first seek volunteers who are willing to give up their seats in return for compensation offered by the airline. The airline may bump passengers involuntarily if not enough of them volunteer, and these passengers are eligible for cash compensation in most circumstances. The rule applies to passengers bumped from an oversold flight that departs without them, not to those affected by delayed or canceled flights.
Under the current rule, if the airline can arrange alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within two hours of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight – or four hours on international flights -- the compensation is the amount of the fare to the passenger’s destination with a $200 maximum. If the airline cannot meet these deadlines, the amount of compensation doubles, with a $400 maximum. These payments are in addition to the value of the passenger’s ticket, which the passenger can use for alternate transportation or have refunded if not used. There are occasions when airlines are not required to pay compensation, for example, where the passenger is provided alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passenger’s destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of the oversold flight.
The Department asked for comment on five proposals: increasing the $200 compensation limit to $624 and the $400 limit to $1,248; increasing the compensation limits to $290 and $580, respectively; doubling the compensation limits to $400 and $800; eliminating all compensation limits and making compensation equal to the value of the ticket with the payment doubling for longer delays; or leaving the current limits in place.
The Department’s notice also asked for comment on other possible changes to the bumping rule, such as extending the rule to aircraft having 30 to 60 seats, which are not currently covered, and clarifying the criteria airlines may use in deciding the order in which passengers will be bumped.
Comments on the Department’s Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking are due in 60 days. The notice will be available tomorrow on the Internet at http://dms.dot.gov, docket OST-01-9325. Comments also will be posted at this site. Further information on the Department’s bumping rules is available at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking.
-END-
Jul 9, 2007, 9:12 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,236
I personally think the $624 and $1,248 compensation limits are the proper ones because these are involuntary denied boarding limits. The airines will still be free to bargain with passengers, many of whom will still accept the $200-$400 limits or even free RT vouchers. We are only talking in the worst case when nobody will volunter at any price how much will the airline have to pay someone to involuntarily get off the plane. This is long overdue.
How much is it in Europe now?
How much is it in Europe now?
Jul 10, 2007, 3:42 am
#10
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According to a post by Counsellor in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...=686728&page=2, a link with Europe's regulations can be found here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010007.pdf
It basically says for involuntary boarding:
a) Delayed more than 2 hours for < 1500 km flight, 250 Euros
b) Delayed more than 3 hours for < 1500 km European Union flights or other 1500 km - 3500 km non-European Union flights flights, 400 Euros
c) Not a or b (in other words, > 3500 km), 600 Euros
If the rescheduled flights arrive less than those times above, compensation is 50%.
There appear to be different clauses where airlines don't have to pay.
--
Similarly you can check conditions or carriage for various airlines and find similar notice to those amounts.
http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/imag...cm53-16359.pdf
Note: KLM as an example, actually compensates more via voucher than if you just want the cash. i.e. 350:500:800 vs 250:400:600
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010007.pdf
It basically says for involuntary boarding:
a) Delayed more than 2 hours for < 1500 km flight, 250 Euros
b) Delayed more than 3 hours for < 1500 km European Union flights or other 1500 km - 3500 km non-European Union flights flights, 400 Euros
c) Not a or b (in other words, > 3500 km), 600 Euros
If the rescheduled flights arrive less than those times above, compensation is 50%.
There appear to be different clauses where airlines don't have to pay.
--
Similarly you can check conditions or carriage for various airlines and find similar notice to those amounts.
http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/imag...cm53-16359.pdf
Note: KLM as an example, actually compensates more via voucher than if you just want the cash. i.e. 350:500:800 vs 250:400:600
Jul 10, 2007, 9:05 am
#12
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un cap it
i go for no cap at all
make the airlines pay if they can't get volunteers
they are the ones who are responsible for the mess so they should pay up
make the airlines pay if they can't get volunteers
they are the ones who are responsible for the mess so they should pay up
Jul 10, 2007, 9:46 am
#13
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As this isn't related to Mileage Runs, I'll move it to TravelBuzz for general discussion of the DOT and bumping...
Dave, a.k.a. dmfriedman
Moderator, Mileage Run
Dave, a.k.a. dmfriedman
Moderator, Mileage Run
Jul 10, 2007, 9:55 am
#14
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I'm in favor of either no caps or $624/$1248 proposal. Looking at the link which hw248i kindly posted, I was not aware of this provision:
Also, the amount of the compensation is based on "scheduled" arrival time. It seems to me that if this time is later adjusted, the compensation should be adjusted as well, and I don't know if it is.
So far, I don't see a place on the site to post comments yet.
* The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold 60 or fewer passengers. (emphasis added)
I believe that should be changed to 29 or fewer passengers. I don't know the date the rule was implemented, but given the (unfortunate) rise in the use of 30-50 passenger planes in the last 5 years or so, the airlines should be equally responsible for overbooking those flights as well, especially the destinations served by these flights are often smaller airports with fewer alternative flight options.Also, the amount of the compensation is based on "scheduled" arrival time. It seems to me that if this time is later adjusted, the compensation should be adjusted as well, and I don't know if it is.
So far, I don't see a place on the site to post comments yet.
Jul 10, 2007, 10:35 am
#15
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I think the penalty tiers shouldn't stop after 4 hours.
The rules give incentive to extend a delay to avoid additional bumps. The penalties ought to escalate at least up to (and perhaps double) the price of a full fare F/C ticket. Also, the penalties shouldn't be based on the segment, but the entire remaining itinerary, including the return if the delay is sufficiently long.
The rules give incentive to extend a delay to avoid additional bumps. The penalties ought to escalate at least up to (and perhaps double) the price of a full fare F/C ticket. Also, the penalties shouldn't be based on the segment, but the entire remaining itinerary, including the return if the delay is sufficiently long.