While the pilot dumps fuel, what do YOU do?
#76




Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 41,216
Well SR111 wasted precious time getting rid of excess fuel. I once read that they had a guideline of never ignoring the Maximum Landing Weight but I am not sure if that was the limiting factor there.
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: أمريكا
Posts: 26,931
And what about if you were a pax instead of flying the plane?
#78
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere near BWI
Programs: DL DM, HH Dia, SPG Gold, MR Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,654
Based on the wording in UCBeau's quote, I would assume that he was writing as if he was a pilot on commute, sitting in a FC seat (he mentions sleeping and watching IFE - to my knowledge, the only IFE in the very front seats would be the dials, panels, lights and the view out of their 7-9 windows).
#79
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Airplanes are designed to takeoff above the maximum landing weight, when you land at your destination, you will be landing below your maximum landing weight because you have burned off your fuel going to your destination. For whatever reason you have to land right after taking off or before your destination due to- lets say a passenger who has a heart attack, you MAY have to dump fuel to ensure landing below the maximum landing weight.It is a simple straight forward procedure.
If there is any danger, it is because of something else. Not the fuel dumping. And if there was any danger, then there would be no fuel dumping because you would want to get on the ground as soon as possible. In this case, you MAY land overweight, but the airplane is designed to do this as well, but not on a normal basis. In this case this case , we will write in the maintenance log that an overweight landing was done so the maintenance people can do an overweight landing check to ensure that nothing was overstressed in the landing.
So if fuel dumping has to be done, you can be assured that there is no danger otherwise a landing would be done asap without fuel dumping.And if you return or land early for whatever reason, without fuel dumping, please don't think it is because there is danger- it is simply because we will be landing below the maximum landing weight at that time. If there is danger, at any time,you will know about it as the Captain will tell you and the Flight Attendants will prepare the cabin for an EMRGENCY landing. That happens when there is a dangerous or time critical situation.
Normally, at our company, the minimum altitude for fuel dumping is 4000 feet above ground. This ensures that the fuel is vaporized before it hits the ground.
#80
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2
The dumping is riskless as it happens far from the engine. An engine out on a 4 engine plane constitutes no risk either. But the fact that an engine failed (not an engine being shut down) can imply a great risk. The engine could have damage the wing structure, even potentially rupture the tanks. The dumping may become a risk at it delays the touchdown.
Well SR111 wasted precious time getting rid of excess fuel. I once read that they had a guideline of never ignoring the Maximum Landing Weight but I am not sure if that was the limiting factor there.
Well SR111 wasted precious time getting rid of excess fuel. I once read that they had a guideline of never ignoring the Maximum Landing Weight but I am not sure if that was the limiting factor there.
Of note is that the pilots originally declared a PAN - which is not an emergency but a problem which is matter of urgency that requires priority treatment by ATC. That was their call of smoke in the cockpit and the decision to dump fuel to get below the maximum landing weight was commensurate with a PAN.
When they ascertained that situation deteriorated to that of an EMERGENCY, they declared an EMERGENCY - and said that they had to land right away. Which meant at that time an overweight landing would have resulted because they hadn't finished fuel dumping.
Of note is that the Canadian Aviation Safety Board was able to ascertain that irregardless of whether fuel dumping was done or not, the outcome would have been the same. You can read the full CASB report at CBC.ca. The pilots were also exonerated from any fault in this accident. The various reports by CBC.ca refer and there is more than adequate coverage and analysis of their decision to dump fuel and everything else that they did.
#81


Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CP-ASEL,AMEL,G-IA in Tucson, Arizona, United States
Posts: 1,166
I'd ask the nearest hottie if she wanted to spend her last moments in the air discovering the joys of the MHC.
By the way, I wouldn't ask if she wanted to spend her last moments of life discovering the MHC because that would be dishonest.
By the way, I wouldn't ask if she wanted to spend her last moments of life discovering the MHC because that would be dishonest.
#82
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM
Posts: 2,080
About 15 years ago I was on an SFO-LAX flight. Right after our initial climb, the captain announced that he thought some, maybe many of the tires had blown out as we took off. It was night, so they couldn't do a visual check.
There was no airworthiness issue, so we flew to LAX anyway. We spent the flight practicing the brace position and letting our eyes adjust to a very dark cabin (emergency lights only). Absolutely no one freaked out. In fact, except for the FAs going over evacuation procedures, hardly anyone spoke at all.
The landing turned out to be normal (except for the darkness, all the emergency equipment on the field, and the FAs saying "Brace! Brace! Heads down! Stay down!"). In fact, once we had rolled safely onto the taxiway, the #1 went right into the standard "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Los Angeles, where the local time is approximately 9:15 ..."
That was my last flight on US Scare. Not because of what happened (nothing, and as far as the false alarm was concerned, better safe than sorry), and not because of how the crew handled it (they were great), but because there was no follow-up at all. They didn't even buy us a drink.
There was no airworthiness issue, so we flew to LAX anyway. We spent the flight practicing the brace position and letting our eyes adjust to a very dark cabin (emergency lights only). Absolutely no one freaked out. In fact, except for the FAs going over evacuation procedures, hardly anyone spoke at all.
The landing turned out to be normal (except for the darkness, all the emergency equipment on the field, and the FAs saying "Brace! Brace! Heads down! Stay down!"). In fact, once we had rolled safely onto the taxiway, the #1 went right into the standard "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Los Angeles, where the local time is approximately 9:15 ..."
That was my last flight on US Scare. Not because of what happened (nothing, and as far as the false alarm was concerned, better safe than sorry), and not because of how the crew handled it (they were great), but because there was no follow-up at all. They didn't even buy us a drink.
#83
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 49
Glad they made it back safely.
Question for flight-deck crews. I thought I read somewhere (don't remember where though) that not all commercial airliners have the ability to dump fuel when in the air. Are there any aircraft types flying today that may not be able to dump fuel in an emergency, and instead would have to try to burn off the fuel, if possible, to avoid an overweight landing?
bj-21.
Question for flight-deck crews. I thought I read somewhere (don't remember where though) that not all commercial airliners have the ability to dump fuel when in the air. Are there any aircraft types flying today that may not be able to dump fuel in an emergency, and instead would have to try to burn off the fuel, if possible, to avoid an overweight landing?
bj-21.
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: أمريكا
Posts: 26,931

