UAORDFLYER

Today I was on UA1523 (MCO-ORD) departing at 0720. I was listening to CH9 and while we were en route in ATL Center, every a/c that was arriving into ATL was told to expect holding (weather), though not timeframe was given to them.

I"ve only been put into a hold pattern years ago when I was a kid, I remember the captain making the announcement.

I was curious as to how often this happens to other FT's, and why? I would guess weather & flow control being the major causes, any other reasons?

Thanks

Ocn Vw 1K

Holding patterns seemed to be more common about 7-10 and more yrs. ago. I believe the FAA has tried to reduce them due to more affirmative mgt. of the national airspace. Sometimes holds do arise due to weather moving into an airport or approach area or unusual traffic buildups not forecast. Of course the tradeoff to fewer holds in the air is more ground stops/delays.

TTT

I also think airlines have perhaps opted for the delay at the departure vs a holding pattern because of the various costs associated with flying a plane in circles. Also, as Ocn Vw 1k said, the FAA's airspace management and flow control has become much more efficient.

Rabidstoat

I don't know, I don't think of a holding pattern as an unusual event at all. I can't recall how often they happen, though. My last one was just last week.

Then again, I fly in and out of ATL. That probably makes a difference. That airport is notorious from suffering when the city has "weather".

Howgart

Happens all the time at LHR. In fact, I cannot remember my last flight through there without at least one circle around (I'm in and out of there on average 4 times per month). Whenever flying through Heathrow, I automatically add at least 15-20 minutes to whatever the official stated arrival time is. Usual reason given is flow control/traffic.

szg

Had this year one with OS flying from VIE to LHR without any holding patterns straight in to land. It was the evening flight, so it could be possible, that there were not so much flight traffic at LHR.

voop

Happens less frequently than some years ago, but still I find being put into holding-pattern ~1/month for longer or shorter duration.

Nothing out of the ordinary, I'd say.

WHBM

Different procedures in different places, sometimes holding (circling) is favoured, in other places sending aircraft off on indirect routes is favoured.

The grand-daddy of them all is indeed London Heathrow, which has four standard holding points in the four corners around London airspace. Sometimes these can become full and further holding points further out are also used. Other UK airports use the same technique. Under normal conditions you can expect maybe once or twice round the block at Heathrow, but if something goes wrong (even just one go-around) then things can start to back up. The normal situation shouldn't make for late arrivals as the schedules allow for it; in fact much of the holding at Heathrow arises from aircraft arriving a few minutes early.

The US favours sending aircraft off on long off-line routes to achieve the same thing; at Miami for example you seem to be sent off over the Everglades, a long run out and then a long run back. It depends on the length of flight as well; if Heathrow gets into trouble an inbound domestic flight can have departure delayed but this is not possible of course for intercontinental flights which were in the air long before things started to happen.

Holding is usually over a VOR radio beacon. Doing a "classic" VOR hold accurately is one of the more challenging aspects of flying, doing the oval just by listening to radio blips from the beacon and using your stopwatch (yes, even on a 747) and the aircraft instruments. Actually more modern aircraft have the holds in their flight management computer; the crew can just punch it in and then sit back while the aircraft flies it immaculately. In a really accurate hold you may feel a slight tremor in the aircraft as you fly through your own wake turbulence from several minutes previously at the same point. I've been with a guy doing the hand-fly stopwatch method and we got this. He was pleased with himself !

Kiwi Flyer

Last year I had a flight from BCN to LHR that spent more time holding than flying the rest.

12172003

The FAA has been more proactive with holding airplanes on the ground rather than in the air.

BTW, the article a week or two ago about pax taxes supported small airports. Think of it this way, that small airport alleviates the burden on large airports. Can you imagine having a hold with 5 747's while a Cessna 152 drags it into SFO/JFK/LAX/ORD with a maximum forward speed at VNE (never exceed) of 85 knots (slight exaggeration).

oklAAhoma

What other reasons could there be? I can't think of anything else.

dvs7310

I don't recall ever having been in a holding pattern in the US (I've only been flying since '99). I remember 2 or 3 go arounds on a flight from Chongqing to Guangzhou China due to weather then finally we got sent to land in Shenzhen only to sit on the tarmac for an hour and fly the 15 minutes back to Guangzhou...

The Weather by the way was hardly anything by our standards. There were a few stray lightning bolts but it wasn't really raining much or storming on the ground.

This was after a long delay in Chongqing too after they decided to close the airport for a light haze. Again, not something that would have diverted flights in the US, but all of the planes en route to CKG at the time were sent to Chengdu to wait it out. It was funny becuase they were allowed to take off just not land. All of the planes that were already at the airport took off while we waited for our plane to come in... of course I tried to get re-routed but in China point to point is pretty much the rule and they couldn't send me to Guangzhou via an alternate city.

oklAAhoma

Congratulations, you've been lucky. I hope your run continues for a long time.

Someone83

Out of my last 20 flight into LHR, has it only happened once that we weren't put in a holding pattern