I agree that changing a child at a seat is not appropriate, and I have always changed our children in the lav, which BTW is *extremely* difficult once children reach toddler-size.

However, your concerns regarding public health are a little extreme. What do you think is more of a risk to elderly passengers on airplanes: common influenza, a very prevalent (and potentially serious) illness usually spread by coughing and sneezing, or by contact with saliva; or childhood viral gastroenteritis, which is typically spread by direct contact with vomit or diarrhea, followed by ingestion? This is just one example.

^ Completely agree.

BTW, changing children in close quarters in public is not OK in my book. Even less OK if people might be drinking/eating. The is not because of health concerns so much as it is consideration for the people around being subjected to odor and having to see the contents of used diapers. Simply not fair.

Now I WILL go along with you on that one. Of course, it's gotta be the less-than-3-oz size! (3-1-1...we're all SO much safer now! )

Related sidebar: Here's how times have changed for me...I grew up in NYC and rode the subways for years for school and early-career work (before I finally moved away from NYC many years ago). "Back in the day", we never thought twice about how many hands came in contact with the hold bars and strap handles...and most folks really never got sick too often - I guess we all built up resistance.

Whenever I go back to visit now, if I have to stand and hold the handles and/or bars, I'm incredibly conscious of all the "passive shared touch surfaces", and the FIRST thing I do when I exit the train is reach for my less-than-3-oz bottle of hand sanitizer. If I'm unable to do so, I feel like I have the cooties for the rest of the day.

The child kicking seat problem is one I hate. Yesterday I had a kid kicking the back of my seat for the 2 hours on ORD-BOS. Eventually I turned around and made a face that suggested I wasn't too pleased and the mother seemed to keep things more or less under control.

Very annoying though that this is even necessary. Parents: don't let your kids kick the seat in front of you! Thanks.

And the last word on diaper changes in your seat--parents, please don't do it. There aren't enough words to describe how UNSANITARY, disgusting, gross, smelly, and offensive this is to people who are not the parents of the child being changed.

AND the above applies to ALL diaper changes!

I don't want to ban kids from planes but think it's perfectly reasonable for all kids and their parents to be in economy.

When I buy a cheap class ticket I know it's a lottery and my flight is going to be pretty uncomfortable however it plays out.
But when I fork out thousands of bucks extra for a premium class ticket, I do it to ensure I get a really comfortable and relaxing flight, where I can get some sleep. There should not even be the possibility of multiple screaming babies all around me, because if I am not comfortable I have completely wasted the extra money. I can be uncomfortable much more cheaply in the back of the plane.

I feel very strongly about this, so please allow me to repeat what I said in another topic several months ago.

I am going to flamed by numerous parents for this, but my view is that children who cannot behave themselves and stay reasonably quiet do not belong on planes. At all.

(If you know your child is calm and well-behaved, then that's another story... but this post is about children who cannot behave, and the parents who knowingly inflict their children on others in cramped airplanes.)

I mean really, does your child have to be on that flight? Is it absolutely essential that you travel by air with your screaming children? Why can't you wait a few years until your children are older and more behaved?

Unless you are taking your child to visit a dying relative whom s/he might never see again, I simply do not believe poorly behaved children should be on planes. My wife and I hope to have children very soon. I have no intention of taking my children on long flights when they are infants. At a minimum, they must be out of diapers, and if they are still loud and unruly even after that, then I simply will not take them on a plane. They can wait until they are older and quieter. It will not kill them to stay grounded for a few more years. There are plenty of places we can take them near our home city for fun travel experiences (without flying), and they will not be severely deprived of crucial life experiences just because they don't fly before age 10 or whatever.

I used to be more flexible about children on planes, but my last trip was the last straw for me. I was in business class NRT-ORD. A huge family with four small children (two of whom were infants) sat right next to me. The kids were noisy through most of the flight, and the mother changed her baby's diapers right on the seat (in business class). I was so thoroughly disgusted and angered by this experience that I now believe unruly children should never be on a plane (unless it's a family emergency).

Or in fancy restaurants. The children should be home learning manners.

But, as in my case, my 6, 8, and 9 year olds are Plats with AA. They spend more money with AA than you do, they will have more flight years with AA than you will, etc. If you were AA would you want to ban them from First Class?

Not a good business decision.

p.s. My children behave 95% of the time

I am a parent. I have a three year old who flies at least once a month (and has since she was three weeks old) and a nine year old stepdaughter who flies a few times a year. Both of the girls are well behaved most of the time because they have rules and expectations. I realize you can't do that with infants, but you start talking about it and ensuring you are well prepared.

I am sick and tired and kids running around and misbehaving at restaurants, play areas, doctor's offices, and yes, airplanes. It reinforces even MORE why I want to have rules and expectations for my girls. I do not understand why parents find it acceptable that their kids are kicking the seats in front of them and I simply do not understand why ANYONE at ANY TIME would change a diaper in seat. In the many flights my daughter had her first year, there was never an occasion that would have necessitated this and I can't think of one that would have.

Where have manners gone? People, before you have kids, take a good look at yourself. Are you considerate of others? Do you say please and thank you? Do you jerk the seat up of someone in front of you? Say rude things to other people/passengers? Then guess what? Your kids will pick up on that and be the kind of brats we're all upset about in this thread. They mimic everything you do and pick up on your behaviors.

I am far from a perfect person or parent. I know that my daughter has to fly at least every month (we visit her sister in California) and I knew she was not going to be the type of flyer I cringed around so I started doing things early to ensure she wouldn't be. Still, she's not perfect and has had her moments on flights - thankfully these have been few and far between.

I don't think the answer is to ban children to coach and I'm sure the airlines won't think that's the answer. The answer is for parents to take responsibility and to teach their children how to act appropriately in public situations.

This is the part of the pageant where we all trot out our own kids and explain how different they are from the shouting, filthy, waste-covered, rabble...

My son (now 12) has been flying respectfully since he was four months old and behaving himself in first class since he was five. He knows how to handle himself in situations ranging from international business class to long gate delays courtesy by Comair. Before you "ban" kids like mine from premium classes or "certain flights" altogether, you should consider banning drunks, lechers, sweaty unwashed adults in wife-beaters and loose shorts, DYKWIA screamers, upgrade cheaters, and the whole checkered parade of human flotsam we have to fly with.

Considering the repellent behavior of many flying adults, the sweeping anti-child bias on FT is one of the least attractive things about this community.

For the record, there is no excuse for changing a diaper at the seat. I changed mine in the back lav of a TW MD80 when he was six months old... no changing table, no headroom, but we managed... anything else would have been utterly inconsiderate.

Bad behavior is as uncalled for in coach as it is in first class. I'm not sure why anyone would think that banning children from first class is reasonable. Like you, I wonder where manners and consideration have gone.

I also suffered a recent flight with a baby kicking my seat for several hours. The thing that infuriated me was the parent didn't stop it. If you want to save money by keeping the kid on your lap for 6 hours, then you must keep the kid on your lap and not in another passenger's space.

Do any parents consider the safety issue? Don't you know that lap children have crashed their heads into the ceiling and been injured during unexpected turbulence? Seems to me it's gambling the kid's life to save money.

My parents began to take me on commercial flights at the age of two. Like your daughters, I (hear from others) that I was very well-behaved, and yet I can recall at least two episodes in which I began to shriek and cry after succumbing to ferocious earaches upon descent. Sometimes, "bad behaviour" is really symptomatic of actual physical discomfort, and not merely indicative of general brattiness.

It's great for kids to have rules and expectations. At the same time, though, they have loads of excess energy, and it's quite natural for them to want to burn it off. I really do wish airlines would remove a few rows of seats and create an "exercise area" -- for everyone's comfort.

I agree with you completely, but with one caveat: children are not small adults, and no one should really expect them to behave like them. I think a great many of these social irritations could be mitigated if we incorporated a few more child-friendly measures into our public spaces.