Is this Racist?
Jul 11, 2006, 12:23 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Is this Racist?
As you know, Albert of Monaco had a child with an African lady last year and has been the topic of much discussion in Europe. I came across this cartoon in a Belgian paper yesterday and I'm wondering if you consider it racist or if it would be considered racist in the US or if it'd be considered racist in whatever country you reside. I wonder if a Dutch paper would have run this.
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
Jul 11, 2006, 12:25 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by bluewatersail
As you know, Albert of Monaco had a child with an African lady last year and has been the topic of much discussion in Europe. I came across this cartoon in a Belgian paper yesterday and I'm wondering if you consider it racist or if it would be considered racist in the US or if it'd be considered racist in whatever country you reside. I wonder if a Dutch paper would have run this.
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
Jul 11, 2006, 12:52 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,298
Originally Posted by bluewatersail
As you know, Albert of Monaco had a child with an African lady last year and has been the topic of much discussion in Europe. I came across this cartoon in a Belgian paper yesterday and I'm wondering if you consider it racist or if it would be considered racist in the US or if it'd be considered racist in whatever country you reside. I wonder if a Dutch paper would have run this.
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/kalen...2006-07-10.gif
secondly ...what does the words say ??....what is the message.
Jul 11, 2006, 1:18 am
#7
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Originally Posted by bearbrick
from the drawing .... i would not think it is "racist" where ever we come from..as i think the"typical" [ and alas , accepted] imagery of africans tend to be what has been depicted in the drawing .... the stereotypical visual in our minds at least .....at least it didnt show a bone in between his nose !! ....not that i think it is right to depict african in this manner but it just illustrates how "western"societies see the world and this blinkered vision is continually being re inforced by the media .
secondly ...what does the words say ??....what is the message.
secondly ...what does the words say ??....what is the message.
it's just so lame.Agree on the imagery analysis. Stereotypical. ugh
Jerene
Jul 11, 2006, 1:22 am
#8
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The look in his face, the drawing - racist. Crazy thing is - it's very rare for a black white biracial child to have that deep of a complexion (speaking as a child of a white father / black mother union and one who encountered tons of biracial children going to freaking "Rainbow Children" play groups.)
My point is - the drawing was definitely done for shock value "oh my goodness, he has a black kid." In reality, I'd bet his child's complexion is closer to his than it is to the African mothers. But of course, it still has black blood, so in most people's minds (and this cartoonist's mind) that makes the baby 100% black. And black means "shock" "big lips" and other stereotypes, even though his baby probably looks nothing like that.
Racist and just plain ignorant.
My point is - the drawing was definitely done for shock value "oh my goodness, he has a black kid." In reality, I'd bet his child's complexion is closer to his than it is to the African mothers. But of course, it still has black blood, so in most people's minds (and this cartoonist's mind) that makes the baby 100% black. And black means "shock" "big lips" and other stereotypes, even though his baby probably looks nothing like that.
Racist and just plain ignorant.
Jul 12, 2006, 4:58 am
#9
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No way would this be published in the USA. Compared to other offenses, racism is thought to be somehow more reprehensible then anything else and nothing gets more press in the USA then claims of racism. It seems like the press and public are so used to stories of murder, robbery, arson etc... that anything but the most spectacular crimes are shrugged off as part of the regular day. Bring in the racist angle and it's national news. It's almost like it's a national obsession inside the USA, print anything like this and everyone and anyone would be raising all heck.
Is this drawing racism or racist? Depends what you define racism and racist as. To me racism is nothing more then to discriminate against people based on their race or beliefs etc... So does this drawing discriminate against a race of people? I think that a racist is a person who has a belief that one race is superior or inferior to others. In this case I think the artist could be classified as a racist (if it is true or not I have no idea).
Others think the definition is all the above and more and some classify racism / racist as something completely different. Is the drawing racism or is the artist a racist or is he / she just ignorant going for maximum shock value? I can't make that call either way. To me the drawing is in poor taste and offensive so I would think it's going for shock value and nothing more, well maybe the artist is a complete ignorant idiot as well. In my country of residence, it would be viewed as poor taste and incorrect, and if it was about an islander then they would raise some heck over it.
I'm in a mixed race marriage where I (as an American) am the minority (only about 70 non locals here) and my kids are definitely a wild mix of different races (my wife is a mixed islander and I'm a big mix of different nationalities). I personally think that mixed race people are some of the most beautiful and striking people in the world. To me the mixing of different cultures and races creates some wonderful people.
Is this drawing racism or racist? Depends what you define racism and racist as. To me racism is nothing more then to discriminate against people based on their race or beliefs etc... So does this drawing discriminate against a race of people? I think that a racist is a person who has a belief that one race is superior or inferior to others. In this case I think the artist could be classified as a racist (if it is true or not I have no idea).
Others think the definition is all the above and more and some classify racism / racist as something completely different. Is the drawing racism or is the artist a racist or is he / she just ignorant going for maximum shock value? I can't make that call either way. To me the drawing is in poor taste and offensive so I would think it's going for shock value and nothing more, well maybe the artist is a complete ignorant idiot as well. In my country of residence, it would be viewed as poor taste and incorrect, and if it was about an islander then they would raise some heck over it.
I'm in a mixed race marriage where I (as an American) am the minority (only about 70 non locals here) and my kids are definitely a wild mix of different races (my wife is a mixed islander and I'm a big mix of different nationalities). I personally think that mixed race people are some of the most beautiful and striking people in the world. To me the mixing of different cultures and races creates some wonderful people.
Jul 12, 2006, 7:55 am
#12
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Best thing perhaps is to put this drawing into context.
Most Belgians of the 'artist's' age will have grown up with depictions of black people similar to this one: http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/images/.../c-pirates.jpg from the Asterix & Obelix books.
The black pirate's features were changed for the English translations destined for the UK (I couldn't help noticing how the same character looked different in my Spanish and English versions which created a lot of questions for me as a child) but the link shows the original version, which has always been perfectly acceptable in Belgian.
This drawing would certainly be rasict if it had been published in Britain. But in Belgium.... misguided, certainly. Badly drawn? Absolutley. Racist? not so sure...
Most Belgians of the 'artist's' age will have grown up with depictions of black people similar to this one: http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/images/.../c-pirates.jpg from the Asterix & Obelix books.
The black pirate's features were changed for the English translations destined for the UK (I couldn't help noticing how the same character looked different in my Spanish and English versions which created a lot of questions for me as a child) but the link shows the original version, which has always been perfectly acceptable in Belgian.
This drawing would certainly be rasict if it had been published in Britain. But in Belgium.... misguided, certainly. Badly drawn? Absolutley. Racist? not so sure...
