Pay-as-you-go Highways
Apr 28, 2005 | 8:58 am
#1
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Pay-as-you-go Highways
These are the highways built within interstates whose tolls fluctuate based on amount of traffic and time of day. One could drive at a crawl for 2 hours or go on a parallel highway and drive the same mileage in 30 minutes. Is this the wave of the future? If anything, it shows me that HOV doesn't work. Is your time worth the extra expense?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/28/na...rint&position=
Paying on the Highway to Get Out of First Gear
By TIMOTHY EGAN
RIVERSIDE, Calif. - It is a California still life. In this land of mobile ambition and instant communities, life is on hold in the parking lot that is the Riverside Freeway, 10 miles or more going nowhere at all hours of the day on one of the most congested auto corridors in the world.
But like a mirage in the exurban desert, a narrow river of traffic moves swiftly down the middle of this highway. The fast lanes, the 91 Express, are sometimes called Lexus lanes, first class on asphalt. They can turn a two-hour commute to work into a 30-minute zip. For a solo driver, on-time arrival comes with a price: nearly $11 per round trip, a toll collected through electronic signals.
The freeway in places is no longer free. From the backed-up pools of frustration in Chicago's adjacent counties, to the farthest Virginia fringes of the commute to Washington, to Texas, where plans are under way to build a 4,000-mile network of toll roads, the United States has outgrown its highway system.
But state and federal governments, beset by deficits, say they have barely enough money to service the existing system, let alone build new roads. As a result, nearly two dozen states have passed legislation allowing their transportation systems to operate pay-as-you-go roads, and in many cases, letting the private sector build and run these roads.
Social engineering is merging with traffic engineering, creating new technologies that charge people a variable toll based on how many cars are on the road - known as congestion pricing - or reduce toll rates for high occupancy to encourage car-pooling. The White House wants to allow states to charge user fees for virtually any stretch of an interstate.
It is shaping up as one of the biggest philosophical changes in transportation policy since the toll-free interstate highway system was created under President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1956. It mirrors changes taking place overseas as well. London began charging tolls two years ago to enter the center of the city during weekday business hours.
....
By TIMOTHY EGAN
RIVERSIDE, Calif. - It is a California still life. In this land of mobile ambition and instant communities, life is on hold in the parking lot that is the Riverside Freeway, 10 miles or more going nowhere at all hours of the day on one of the most congested auto corridors in the world.
But like a mirage in the exurban desert, a narrow river of traffic moves swiftly down the middle of this highway. The fast lanes, the 91 Express, are sometimes called Lexus lanes, first class on asphalt. They can turn a two-hour commute to work into a 30-minute zip. For a solo driver, on-time arrival comes with a price: nearly $11 per round trip, a toll collected through electronic signals.
The freeway in places is no longer free. From the backed-up pools of frustration in Chicago's adjacent counties, to the farthest Virginia fringes of the commute to Washington, to Texas, where plans are under way to build a 4,000-mile network of toll roads, the United States has outgrown its highway system.
But state and federal governments, beset by deficits, say they have barely enough money to service the existing system, let alone build new roads. As a result, nearly two dozen states have passed legislation allowing their transportation systems to operate pay-as-you-go roads, and in many cases, letting the private sector build and run these roads.
Social engineering is merging with traffic engineering, creating new technologies that charge people a variable toll based on how many cars are on the road - known as congestion pricing - or reduce toll rates for high occupancy to encourage car-pooling. The White House wants to allow states to charge user fees for virtually any stretch of an interstate.
It is shaping up as one of the biggest philosophical changes in transportation policy since the toll-free interstate highway system was created under President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1956. It mirrors changes taking place overseas as well. London began charging tolls two years ago to enter the center of the city during weekday business hours.
....
Apr 28, 2005 | 9:55 am
#2
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It might have its merits in places where the building or enlarging of new roads are impossible. Everywhere else it is just a new way to scrounge more money from taxpayers.
Instead of spending money towards feasibility studies, it would be time to spend it in order to force the government to reduce drastically its spending, especially on stupid things like wars abroad and feeding a corrupt system on all levels.
The US with Canada and Australia are probably the only countries in the world that do not need to worry about lack of space. THERE IS enough money around to build highways.
Certain cities like NYC o Boston could in the same way as certain German cities, create huge pedestrian zones, accessible only with public transport. It works and could be done in the US as well.
No to FC tolls and exclusive lanes.
Instead of spending money towards feasibility studies, it would be time to spend it in order to force the government to reduce drastically its spending, especially on stupid things like wars abroad and feeding a corrupt system on all levels.
The US with Canada and Australia are probably the only countries in the world that do not need to worry about lack of space. THERE IS enough money around to build highways.
Certain cities like NYC o Boston could in the same way as certain German cities, create huge pedestrian zones, accessible only with public transport. It works and could be done in the US as well.
No to FC tolls and exclusive lanes.
Apr 28, 2005 | 10:24 am
#3
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Originally Posted by magexpect
Certain cities like NYC o Boston could in the same way as certain German cities, create huge pedestrian zones, accessible only with public transport. It works and could be done in the US as well.
Since the NYC area has such an extensive commuter railroad and bus system, these private roads (like that in Riverside, CA) would not come here.
Apr 28, 2005 | 10:29 am
#4
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I have driven on CA 91 and noticed that toll option. There was almost no traffic congestion on the free side, so I'm glad I didn't squander the $11. There were a few people driving on the toll side (this was on a Saturday I think).
I would prefer that tolls be charged on the entire highway, not just half of it. I don't like the idea of segregating traffic on a public road based on ability to pay.
I'm fine with paying tolls to drive on a highway. Recently I chose to drive on I-44 (tolls) through Oklahoma rather than taking US 67 just to avoid traffic lights in all the little towns along the way. It was $7.00 one way from Oklahoma City to Missouri, a good distance and for $7, a fair deal IMHO.
I would prefer that tolls be charged on the entire highway, not just half of it. I don't like the idea of segregating traffic on a public road based on ability to pay.
I'm fine with paying tolls to drive on a highway. Recently I chose to drive on I-44 (tolls) through Oklahoma rather than taking US 67 just to avoid traffic lights in all the little towns along the way. It was $7.00 one way from Oklahoma City to Missouri, a good distance and for $7, a fair deal IMHO.
Apr 28, 2005 | 11:04 am
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Originally Posted by magexpect
THERE IS enough money around to build highways.
Travel tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm
Apr 28, 2005 | 11:55 am
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This is not a new concept at all. Chilean toll roads, for instance, have precisely this kind of system, and it works quite well. I'm shocked that it hasn't taken off here in the US. As traffic volume increases, the toll rates increase, and vice versa. I think that if folks want to use the highways at rush hour, particularly in cities with strong public transportation systems, they should pay for the privilege.
Apr 28, 2005 | 4:50 pm
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The idea is great from economic standpoint: supply & demand! And the gov't (or contractor or some private owner) gets to get money, the rich still end up happy (as they'll pay), and everybody wins.
Apr 28, 2005 | 8:45 pm
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Everybody wins? Take a look at Bangkok's tollways. The one to the airport was one of those public-private projects designed to try to alleviate congestion on a major surface highway yet get as close to self-paying as possible. But in order to do that, they had to set the toll at what turned out to be too much for local drivers. They missed the revenue projection with bills due, so what could they do? The only way to get more money was to raise the toll even more.
Result: The tollway is way underutilized and the old, "free" road running right underneath it is jammed. Foreigners arriving at BKK airport and wealthy Thais may feel like they have it as their own private expressway (and sometimes drive at speeds reflecting that!) but as a means to alleviate congestion and serve oridinary Thais it has been a real failure. Ditto the eastern motorway to Chon Buri...it's great if you can drive it, but the economics cause it to be way underutilized even while the old road is still crowded. It's all a good lesson in toll-road economics and why they're so unpopular.
Closer to home, in Atlanta we got our first toll road as the Georgia 400 extension some years ago. The state pols promised there would be tolls only as long as needed to pay off the road. Hah! They've already uncovered diversions of that money for other purposes and very few people expect the tolls ever to be eliminated. They were supposed to be used only to pay for the road but will be pinched as a source of revenue for other things long after the road is paid for.
Result: The tollway is way underutilized and the old, "free" road running right underneath it is jammed. Foreigners arriving at BKK airport and wealthy Thais may feel like they have it as their own private expressway (and sometimes drive at speeds reflecting that!) but as a means to alleviate congestion and serve oridinary Thais it has been a real failure. Ditto the eastern motorway to Chon Buri...it's great if you can drive it, but the economics cause it to be way underutilized even while the old road is still crowded. It's all a good lesson in toll-road economics and why they're so unpopular.
Closer to home, in Atlanta we got our first toll road as the Georgia 400 extension some years ago. The state pols promised there would be tolls only as long as needed to pay off the road. Hah! They've already uncovered diversions of that money for other purposes and very few people expect the tolls ever to be eliminated. They were supposed to be used only to pay for the road but will be pinched as a source of revenue for other things long after the road is paid for.
Apr 29, 2005 | 4:14 am
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The commute on the 91 fwy is one of the worst in the country.
Soon they're predicting a 3 hr commute time between Riverside and most of LA County within the next 10 years. It's that bad as more people move inland from OC/LAC.
My friends who live in OC (and had girl/boyfriends in Riverside) always used the tollway to get there, it's really worth it to turn a 2hr drive into 30 minutes.. it's worth the sanity.
For the record, my brother currently endures the worst freeway interchange in the nation on a daily basis as he drives from Culver city (closer to LAX) to southern Burbank (near Universal Studios). It's the 405/101 interchange. It's so bad, he usually takes surface streets to get to work.
the worst toll gouging has to be the Yokohama/Chiba bridge and tunnel combo. The idea was to link Yokohama to the slower growing Chiba penninsula, but the toll price of nearly US$70 was quite a turnoff. They reduced the toll to $55 or thereabouts and that's helped a little bit but they never expect that road to be toll-free.
We have a pay-per-use tollway here in SAN on the 15fwy. it's handy since traffic has gone from smooth to astronomically bad in the past 5 years with all the residental development going on that side of the city. It can save ~30 minutes easily, but one accident and the lanes are jammed up. It's reversable as well, so southbound traffic uses the tollway during the AM, the northbound traffic during the PM.
Soon they're predicting a 3 hr commute time between Riverside and most of LA County within the next 10 years. It's that bad as more people move inland from OC/LAC.
My friends who live in OC (and had girl/boyfriends in Riverside) always used the tollway to get there, it's really worth it to turn a 2hr drive into 30 minutes.. it's worth the sanity.
For the record, my brother currently endures the worst freeway interchange in the nation on a daily basis as he drives from Culver city (closer to LAX) to southern Burbank (near Universal Studios). It's the 405/101 interchange. It's so bad, he usually takes surface streets to get to work.
the worst toll gouging has to be the Yokohama/Chiba bridge and tunnel combo. The idea was to link Yokohama to the slower growing Chiba penninsula, but the toll price of nearly US$70 was quite a turnoff. They reduced the toll to $55 or thereabouts and that's helped a little bit but they never expect that road to be toll-free.
We have a pay-per-use tollway here in SAN on the 15fwy. it's handy since traffic has gone from smooth to astronomically bad in the past 5 years with all the residental development going on that side of the city. It can save ~30 minutes easily, but one accident and the lanes are jammed up. It's reversable as well, so southbound traffic uses the tollway during the AM, the northbound traffic during the PM.
Last edited by civicmon; Apr 29, 2005 at 4:17 am
Apr 29, 2005 | 7:32 am
#10
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Originally Posted by RustyC
Closer to home, in Atlanta we got our first toll road as the Georgia 400 extension some years ago. The state pols promised there would be tolls only as long as needed to pay off the road. Hah! They've already uncovered diversions of that money for other purposes and very few people expect the tolls ever to be eliminated. They were supposed to be used only to pay for the road but will be pinched as a source of revenue for other things long after the road is paid for.
Apr 29, 2005 | 10:58 am
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For the most part, interstates built as interstates will remain free. Interstates that became interstates after being part of a state's own road system are owned by the states can be tolled as the state sees fit. Existing roads cannot be converted to toll roads without being wholly owned by the state and built without existing bond funding. New toll roads are state roads built with toll funding.
Apr 29, 2005 | 2:00 pm
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Virginia is getting a private contractor to build 'HOT' lanes on part of their section of the capitol beltway:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042801402.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042801402.html
Apr 29, 2005 | 6:12 pm
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Seattle and surrounding cities are looking hard at adding toll lanes. We just raised our state gas tax 9 cents to raise about $9 billion for new roads and roadwork, but to complete the projects in the Seattle metro area, we need to come up with $3-4 billion on top of that, which would mean significant tax increases or tolls.
HOV in general is a decent idea, the problem is too often it is not designed to get the HOVs on and off the highway efficiently and you end up saving tens of minutes in the inter-stop transit, but you then spend the same tens of minutes as everyone else getting on and off the highways. Highway interchanges, especially, are terrible in this area here in the Seattle metro area, which makes me pine for the special HOV highway interconnects CA has.
HOV in general is a decent idea, the problem is too often it is not designed to get the HOVs on and off the highway efficiently and you end up saving tens of minutes in the inter-stop transit, but you then spend the same tens of minutes as everyone else getting on and off the highways. Highway interchanges, especially, are terrible in this area here in the Seattle metro area, which makes me pine for the special HOV highway interconnects CA has.
Apr 29, 2005 | 6:39 pm
#14
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Originally Posted by Analise
Is the road you're talking about in Atlanta a standard turnpike with set prices 24/7?
Because this is the newest portion of Georgia state highway 400, a toll was created to help pay for this portion of Georgia state highway 400. The rest of Georgia state highway 400 from Interstate 285 to points north is free access to all.
May 1, 2005 | 5:01 am
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Originally Posted by RustyC
Everybody wins? Take a look at Bangkok's tollways. The one to the airport was one of those public-private projects designed to try to alleviate congestion on a major surface highway yet get as close to self-paying as possible. But in order to do that, they had to set the toll at what turned out to be too much for local drivers. They missed the revenue projection with bills due, so what could they do? The only way to get more money was to raise the toll even more.
Foreigners arriving at BKK airport and wealthy Thais may feel like they have it as their own private expressway (and sometimes drive at speeds reflecting that!)...
But if you want a case of pay-as-you-go that works, look down south to Singapore and its ERP system. Electronic tolls are charged for all cars entering the Central Business District during rush hour, and as a result there are almost never traffic jams in the city... except on one bit of the East Coast Parkway which is not covered by the ERP system (something which The Authorities will doubtless fix soon). Of course, having to pay ~US$20000 for a 5-year license to operate a car also helps, but as a happy taxi & public transport user I'm all for it
