guv1976

We are talking about three different elevators:

The newest elevator connects the E/V platform with the connecting concourse level. From the concourse level, one can walk directly to the uptown #6 platform. To get to the downtown #6 platform from the concourse level, one has to walk down (or take an elevator down) to the underpass, and then walk or ride (by elevator or escalator) up from the underpass to the downtown #6 platform.

The two older elevators connect the #6 uptown and downtown platforms with the underpass below those two platforms. (There is also an up escalator from the underpass to the #6 downtown platform, and from the underpass to the connecting concourse.) Most recently, the elevator that serves the downtown #6 platform has been out of service.

Analise

Thanks for the clarification. The out-of-service elevator you mention was what I was thinking about.

SkiAdcock

Landed at 2:50pm, walked out of JFK at 3:00pm in time to see the bus pull away. Because we landed a bit early (and because of equipment change) I decided not to change on plane, but to try to get to Hilton, check-in & change, and high-tail it over to Hyatt.

Since bus left, I took a cab - and at 3:45pm was in my room at the Hilton (evidently we made good time or not too much traffic or something). Was it pricey? Yes. Was the ability to change and shower/freshen up worth it? Yes. If the Freddies had started later instead of 4:30pm, I would have considered waiting for another bus or subway thing, but bit the bullet on costs & made it to Freddies by 4:35pm. Not bad.

Ok, that was the good trip. The return did not go so easily. I ask at hotel about E subway to Airtrain, and they direct me to 42nd/8th which is around the corner from Hilton Times Square. I get the combo ticket, and head to platform standing next to the sign that says get off at blah, blah to conect to Airtrain. Feeling pretty good - hey, I can do this subway stuff (as it turns out - not!).

Hop on subway that arrives & sit there reading Friday's USA Today. Hmmm, we're going for a while - I didn't think they had express on Sat (and remembered some announcement about something being shut down). Finally look up when we do stop - at 135th street. Ok, it could be me, but I don't think there's supposed to be a 135th street on the E (don't have map w/ me). So get out. Ask a stranger if I'm on the right line - you guessed it - no siree - I'm on the C line.

To get back I have to exit, cross the street topside, and then pay & get back on the C line back downtown, although the stranger & the police officer can't agree on which stop I connect to the E. The police officer realizes I'm a bit upset, so has the subway guy call to the other side & tell them to pass me through rather than pay again (which was quite kind).

So over I go, he does & I wait for the subway. Call dan1431 & evidently reach him at his grandparents in Barbados; he tries to figure out where I am
to try & get me back in the right direction.

Subway arrives, get on & it stops at every stop. I still am not sure where to change, but finally realize there's a map on the wall opposite, so head to that (although feel weird standing so close in front of someone who's sitting to read over their head). Realize 50th street is the place, so get off there.

Get off & look for where to catch the E, and the direction I need is not readily obvious (can I digress & say the London tube system is MUCH MUCH better in terms of signage etc). So ask another stranger where to go - and you guessed it - have to exit, cross street & go on other side. Where's the exit to get me there - he points in one direction (wrong). Eventually find it & ask the booth person.

She says if I don't want to pay extra, then I need to get back on subway I just left & go down to 42nd St (where I started!) & change there. Otherwise exit, cross street & pay again. At this point, it's 45 minutes since I got on train & I don't care about the additional $2, so off I go.

Well on the other side I try to buy a ticket from the booth guy who says he can't sell me a ticket, that I have to go to the machine. This is where I lose it & start tearing up (sob, sob). Somehow it comes out that I have a metrocard & he says use that, but I say then I won't have enough to pay for the Airtrain which I've already paid for, so he says hand over the metrocard, give me the $2 & I'll top it up. So I do & then ask him specifically where the E train going to the Airtrain connection platform is, and get to that.

From that point to connecting to Airtrain to getting to United is a breeze - total elapsed time, however, from exiting Hilton to checking in at UA is 2 hours!! Thank goodness I had extra time from check-out at hotel to check-in at UA. Since my F award on ps service entitles me access to the UA Int'l F lounge, I head there & pour a BIG glass of champagne to settle my nerves.

Who knew LA traffic would seem like a breeze compared to NY subways?!

Cheers. Sharon

Analise

Not a pleasant experience there, Sharon. You experienced quite a few glitches:

1. Boarded the C, not the E

2. Found out at 135th Street and realized that you couldn't just turn around without having to pay another fare (I get furious with that)

3. Got the official run around from very well paid union MTA employee who won't sell you a Metrocard because you have the "audacity" to just want one fare. Whether such policies are MTA's or that of their union, these very policies certainly don't benefit the very people who pay the employees' inflated salaries---the passengers.

Bad signage coupled with bad customer "service" -- and they just raised our fares recently.

Your experience may make me question whether to recommend the subway especially going to the airport. You have enough to worry about that you don't need the confusion and discourtesy the MTA creates.

Sadly enough, the easiest thing for you to have done once you realized that you were on the C was indeed to return to 42nd Street because you could easily get on the E to Queens.

kdinino

Well you boarded the WRONG TRAIN??! lo.l...j/k, but Ive learned the hard way too and always look at the train to make sure what line it is....It really is easy , but takes awhile to learn. Its still beats LA traffic though...

guv1976

I am sorry that Sharon had such a bad time with the subway back to JFK, but I don't think that the MTA is very much at fault here. For starters, Sharon boarded the wrong train. Since she has not claimed otherwise, I presume that the C train she boarded was marked as a C train, with a destination sign indicating it was going to upper Manhattan, and not to Jamaica Center. (The train platforms are also clearly marked to indicate which trains stop at which platforms, and at the 42nd Street local platform, both the C and the E stop.) Second, although it is unfortunate, there are a number of stations (usually older ones) in our 100-year-old subway system that have separate entrances for uptown and downtown trains. 135th Street is one of them. And the MTA employee did permit her to board a downtown train without paying an extra fare. At 50th Street, there are also separate entrances for uptown and downtown, and this time Sharon was (properly) required to pay a second fare. Third, new Metrocards are sold in denominations of $4-$80; single-ride tickets ($2) are only sold from Metrocard vending machines, which are available at every station. I'm not even sure if a booth attendant could generate a $2 Metrocard even if (s)he wanted to, but in any event, it sounds like the booth agent was helpful in suggesting that Sharon just add $2 to her existing Metrocard, and that took care of the problem.

The MTA does some things wrong, but they also do some things right, and as unfortunate as Sharon's experience was in this case, about the only thing I can find wrong with the MTA service here is not knowing that the first free transfer from a downtown C to a Queens-bound E occurs at 42nd Street, not 50th Street.

Analise

You need to step out of your New York centered glasses and see things perhaps from someone else's point of view. The C and the E look identical. Not every car is marked with the Blue E or the Blue C so you have to look at the front of the train to see if the white lights have a C or an E. When you're new to the system and thinking about catching that Airtrain to Kennedy, it's easy to see how one can get on the wrong train.

The MTA's signage is terrible. You would think that there would be better Airtrain signs. And until just a few months ago, there were no signs to warn passengers that the A train to Brooklyn splits so you better not be on the one going to Lefferts blvd or else you'll be screwed. How dumb can they be not to tell people that right from the beginning.

I am a true public transportation snob...I hate driving. That said, I am not blinded to the inadequacies the MTA has which most often affects the tourists.

guv1976

A lot of subway cars look identical, and for that reason (among others), every subway car has route designation ("C", "E," "2", "7", etc.) and destination signs on the side of every car. (Yes, there are occasions when the wrong destination is displayed, but that doesn't happen that often, and it is not claimed that it happened here.)

To get to the JFK Airtain, you have to know what station to go to, and what subway to take there. It's no different than if you're going to the Statue of Liberty or the Port Authority Bus Terminal: if you get on the wrong train, you're likely to have a problem.

Could signage in the subway be better? Perhaps. But if a rider does not even look at the signage of a subway train before boarding it, what signage would prevent someone from boarding the wrong train?

kaptan

A friend of mine told me that there is a free long-term parking shuttle that leaves outside all the terminals and stops right by the Howard Beach station. It basically offers the same service of the Airtran but without costing $5. Anybody familiar with using this somewhat unethical service?

And yes its a little unethical because you are using the shuttle even though you dont have your car parked at the long-term lot.

SkiAdcock

It's me again, Ms. Subway-Challenged . Just want to clarify I'm not dissing MTA or any of their staff, and re-reading my post I don't think I did so. Sorry someone took it that way.

Just thought I'd share my "adventure" (and maybe someone reading this thread who is not a local will learn from my error!). Since other than London tube, I can count on one hand the # of subway trips I've taken in my life, I don't feel too bad about getting it goofed up, but it was stressful for me at the time. When you're not familiar with a city to begin with & you couple that with having very little experience with subways, I think a little bit of leeway can be given. It's easy for folk who do it on a regular basis (kind of like my knowing all the surface street alternatives to LA freeways), but not for newbies.

And lesson learned to look at initial on front of train. Since I was on a platform that said E standing next to a sign telling me which exit to take to get to Airtrain and I didn't have a map, it didn't even occur to me to think there was a C train. If there was a sign saying so, I'm sure someone here will tell me what a dolt I was for missing it; c'est la vie.

Even if I knew there was a C, this could be considered the subway version of the elevator thing. You know...the elevator comes, you get on, it stops & you automatically get off without thinking, & then discover it's not the floor you wanted. It was just rote to get off when the doors opened. Pavlov thing. Subway arrived; I got on...

BTW - the London tube is pretty old & their signage is still better than what I've encountered on my JFK-Manhattan via Airtrain/subway combo round trips. MTA probably could beef up their signage a bit. Actually I think I've had hiccups on all 3 trips, but others were minor in terms of time.

PS - Next time I keep a map with me, so I can tell at a glance what's going on. Anyway, thanks to all who posted initially re: getting to town, etc. I'm sure the information will be useful for others who check Travelbuzz.

Cheers. Sharon