I'm not sure where this topic goes so I'm posting it here. My wife is an avid blackjack player but insists that electronic blackjack is fixed/controlled/programmed so that a player could not win a 10, 15, 20 or more hands in a row as could be the case in a blackjack game (using a six deck shoe) dealt by a real dealer. She contends that the electronic blackjack programs would never permit such a consecutive win streak to occur. I disagree but have no real basis for doing so. Any scientific computer-programmer types out there who might wish to venture an opnion or two on this subject?

A better place for this question is probably OMNI.

Here's an excellent source of information regarding all things Gambling:

http://wizardofodds.com/

The author is a professor of gaming at UNLV, an expert in mathematics and statistics. He even writes trip reports.

You can read through his "ask the wizard" section, and he has a section on online gambling, including a blacklist.

Basically, he has determined that some online casinos do cheat in their blackjack games.

One way they do this is by "dealing seconds". The way this works is that if the player stays on 16-21, the system moves on to the dealer. If the dealer's two card total is 12-16, it will check the next card on the top of the deck. If it would bust the dealer's hand, then that card is burned, and the dealer gets the second card off the top of the deck. This dramatically reduces the number of times the dealer busts, adding signficantly to the house's edge.

Some online casinos deal a fair game, and in a fair electronic game, the expected results electronically should be exactly the same as the expected results in a physical game.

Thanks so much for the explanation. It's my fault but I failed to be more specific. My wife's complaint deals (no pun intended) with those electronic black jack games that are located in U.S. Indian casinos or wherever real, live table games with real, live dealers are prohibited. So, are those electronic 21 games found in Indian casinos "fixed" or "programmed" to give the "house" more than the normal edge found in a Las Vegas-type casino? Is it statistically possible for players in such electronic games to win 10-15-20 hands in a row?

In the US, I think you're going to find very few "fixed" games. There's certainly a possibility - it's technically possible for them to cheat - but it's highly unlikey that they'd try because losing their license is going to cost them a lot more than they're going to win by cheating a few customers. I don't know who does the oversight in Indian casinos, but in places like Nevada, the Gaming Control Board keeps a close eye on all of the machines. Whenever casinos open up a machine, that information is tracked.

Unless I had a specific reason to suspet foul play, I would assume that the electronic games are honest and that you have just as good of a chance of winning 10-20 hands in a row on an electronic games as you do in a dealer-delt one.

Guess what - OMNI is back. And you are correct.

If the game is in Nevada, it is illegal for them to rig it so that it is anything but a random shuffle from a standard deck. If the machine is manufactured by IGT or another Nevada-licensed company, it must conform to Nevada regulations when sold anywhere in the world. If it is a VLT in states such as Washington that do not allow stand-alone slots, it is NOT dealt from a fair deck and the house hold may be set to whatever is desired.

It is possible someone could rig an IGT machine after purchase but, really, there is little incentive for them to do so.

QL

Ah, that's a good point. I completely forgot about Class II machines.

XFed2001 - read the fine print on the machine itself. It should, if I'm not mistaken, tell you exactly how the game is dealt.

In the alternative, you could ask a member of the slot team if it is a class II "video lottery terminal" or a random number generator based class III machine.

On a related note... Continental has Blackjack on the IFE. I always had lousy luck against it, and then one hand I caught it drawing on 18 when I held a 20! Must be just lousy programming since there is no money in it.

In the late 1990s I played on a blackjack team that won in the six figures on some high quality blackjack machines at Cherokee, North Carolina, until they changed the rules on the machines. We also won a lot in Vegas but the various casinos with playable machines were a bit quicker to change the pay-outs on the best machines.

The various gaming commissions are supposed to guarantee that the machines do not cheat, and my experience with machine play is that if you play long enough, you get your expected win. However, machines can be legally set to shuffle too often to allow you to get an advantage. Other machines are set at such low limits that they are no longer worth playing -- your expectation might be only pennies an hour. But if you know the rules of the game offered on that machine and the laws governing that gambling jurisdiction, you can calculate your expected win to a pretty good accuracy.

All machines are not created equal. The overwhelming majority have bad rules, and you are wasting your time to try to beat them. Rainman himself could not beat a machine offering only even money on a blackjack, for instance! But there is never any harm in checking the rules before dismissing machine play out of hand.

BTW, anyone aware of a good playable machine would be unwise to share the information because, once word gets out, the first team to arrive will lock up all the spots.

No way are these machines fixed -- there is no reason to do so. They are set up so there is no potential for card counting (usually a reshuffle at the start of every hand), so there is no way to reduce or eliminate the house advantage.

Have the dealer look at next card, see if it's a bust, and if so, bury it and go to the next card? Give me a break. Maybe some Larry, Moe & Curly mom & pop casino tried that in some corner of the world, but that kind of criminal fraud would make no sense for any serious establishment. It would be so easy to bust such a scam. You could have a disgruntled employee blow the whistle, or an observant player who notices that the machine is winning way more than it should. Then, the regulators seize the game and examine the code.

The deck is stacked against you with these machines, but openly and fairly.

Depends on the location. Not all jurisdictions consider it rigging to weight outcomes in a way other than a fair simulation of a deck of cards. However, if it's an IGT machine you are probably safe.

QL

Do you think there is a jurisdiction in the USA that would allow such weighted outcomes? Which?

Washington State, for one.

QL

this is OMNI material and therefore I am moving it there.

--richard, moderator

I looked at the Washington Gambling Commission's site (incl. laws & regs.) and could not find anything right on point. Have you seen any articles about this? You might be right, but I'm skeptical that Wash. allows this for tribal casinos.