United777Heavy

If a terrorist wants to take over the plane, and is willing to die for it, then I'd imagine he'd/she splurge for the first class or business class ticket.

but I digress, my trip for IAD to DIA the FA made people wait at the bulkhead too.

and as for "it's a security issue" excuse, they can only milk it so much before it become useless, but then again, you argue with the FA, you can find yourself dealing with an air marshall or police.

and a final thought, those air marshalls are easy to spot... anyone guess correctly yet?

Aluminum tubing

As I stated in another post Y pax should wait @ the bulkhead for the F lav.
The F cabin isn't big enough to have a queue of F & Y Pax waiting for a lav while the FA needs still have access the galley & aisle to meet their pax needs.

Many FA's become wardons on the issue after having to deal w/ many complaints from F pax over Y pax in the f cabin.
The best advice I can give you is to ask if ok to wait @ the bulkhead for the F lav since the cart is out .
Most of us don't have an issue w/ that

anc-ord772

He didnt say "yeah Im one, and my buddy is up there" however I am sure that I did sit next to one on the upper deck 16B iad-lhr. There was another one in 11G.

Peter M

I think air marshalls are a security issue and anything you have found out about them should NOT be discussed openly. Please don't post their seat numbers, routings and identifying factors. Thanks very much!

SEA_Tigger

The 9/11 crew did. Paid cash too, as I recall.

As much as this issue has been bandied about, the fact is that with no forward Y lavatory on most aircraft, passengers have little choice but to use the First or Business Class facilities.

Yes, it be nice if they visited the facilities landside before their flight (as I do, so I never need to use the plane's), but having them queue up from the bulkhead back is a decent enough compromise, with the understanding that the next person has to wait until the prior person has passed them going back, to allow F and C pax to get up first (since it is their primary lavatory).

winkydink

Like not drinking alcohol and not taking one's jacket off?

aisleorwindow

Are you sure?
If I recall at least one of the 9/11 terrorists came up from coach.

------------------
"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
-Dr. Rumack

[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited Dec 26, 2003).]

mab

Fortunately, no government authority or competent security official has ever made such a request of the flying public about the Air Marshall program.

In any case, it is nonsense. If the marshall program can't withstand even the very mild scrutiny of public discussion of readily available information, then it its worse than useless. (Worse than usless because it would be diverting security resources that could be better spent on more effective measures).

Good security mechanisms in a free society and in the electronic age are designed under the assumption that the adversary will study and exploit the system to full advantage.

If we (the taxpayers and supposed beneficiaries of this system) fail in our obligation to study, discuss and criticize its perceived weaknesses, then we can be sure the terrorist groups will do it for us.

(I study security vulnerabilities for a living.)

Always Flyin

And staying awake the whole flight...

G2

I think that in the interest of public safety, big guys like Oz and OttoGraham and JayBrian should get op upgrades all the time so they are sitting near the cockpit and can fight off the terrorists.

Maybe soon there will be a new onboard speech like the ones for exit row pax.

"Please be aware that you are sitting in a premium class cabin. In the event of an attempted hijacking, you may be asked to assist the crew in preventing the hijackers from taking over the cockpit. If you are not willing to sacrifice your life for your fellow passengers and your countrymen on the ground, please alert the nearest FA immediately so that we may re-seat you."

SFOakIad

So? As harmless as I think it probably is to discuss this, I have to say I'm with Peter on this. This board includes a variety of very frequent travelers who by nature of the way they spend their time have observed a lot of stuff. I labor under no delusion that by not publicly talking about this we will have any substantially greater assurance of safety. But what value is there in discussing it to say "I notice that marshals are always located in seat 34E" other than to pat yourself on the back about how observant you are? What's the point of needlessly contributing to the intelligence resources of those who seek to destroy us?

Now, if TSA had a site where one could report weaknesses that FTs have noticed without alerting Al Qaeda at the same time, then your point about critique of the public would carry more weight.

[This message has been edited by SFOakIad (edited Dec 26, 2003).]

anc-ord772

On my flight I noticed where two of them sat. Im sure it changes, I am sure there were probably more and Im sure if terrorists want to hijack a plane they will know where the air marshals are sitting without visiting FT. The thread asked if I identified any, and well... I did.

callidac

Agreed. As stupid as terrorists are, they are smart enough to notice these patterns themselves, i.e. staying awake, not drinking, jackets, etc. etc.

ramo

Hmm... if we want maximum security, why don't we all start emulating that behavior? Would be much harder for any terrorist to identify the air marshalls, leading to much safer flights.

gumpfs

As someone who always knows the identity of the Air Marshals on the flights I'm working, I can tell you that every one one of the supposed "traits" is false. I've had (male) marshals with ponytails and ripped jeans, for example. They're not always as easy to spot as one might think reading this forum...