FlyerTalk Forums - Reclining Seat Backs

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Quote:

Originally posted by goldmedallionflyer:
The common industry interpretation (common to the airline manufacturers, but not common amongst airline users) excludes the actual amount of real legroom in the measurement - quite a surprise for me. IOW, the seat pitch may be 30", but an older jet with a 4" thick seat back has less leg room than a newer jet that has a 29" seat pitch and a 2" thick seat back.

One of many web resources can be found here. this one is unusually helpful because it lists the different pitches for numerous airlines and class in a single table.

It is interesting to note that all airlines advertise that their seats recline for greater comfort. This appears to be part of the standard marketing ploy. Unfortunately, the marketing effort conveniently fails to mention that reclining your seat reduces the pitch for those people directly behind the recliner - a problem most notable to those seated just in front of an EE row or last row in a cabin ... i.e. to those people whose seats don't recline but have a recliner in front of them.

GMF

I apologize for confusing seat pitch and recline. However my point is the same. The airline advertizes that I will be able to recline. and compensates when standard recline is not possible. Therefore, recline is obviously part of the advertized service that I am paying for.

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

oops, dupe.

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

Quote:

Originally posted by clrankin:
As to your 1,000 FF miles statement, I would argue that the airline probably just gave you that to get you to shut up and go away. It's easier to throw you a bone and hopefully keep you flying than it is to offer any real form of compensation. Now, if you had been handed a $50 voucher or had the price of your ticket refunded, then I would say that you are making a valid point.

Those in the know will tell you that if they were just trying to shut me up, I would have gotten 'Passenger amenity' miles not 'Loss of service' miles.

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
Not a scam since I did not request the miles. The FA offered them for my inconvenience, and I accepted them. Do you turn down miles when they are offered to you?... I thought not.

I see. That's pretty unusual. Considering the number of mileage scams people attempt, please be sure to include this piece of information should it happen again so the rest of us don't assume you are one of the scammers. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Regarding the advertisement of seat recline, please provide an example. All the recline advertisements I see are in premium cabins, which I assume we are not discussing here.

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"It's as easy as 1, 2, C" -- Kelly, Married With Children

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
Perhapse you are just too fat for the tray table to fit between you and the seat back.

No. It is just nearly impossible to work on a laptop when the seat is fully reclined in front of you. A laptop requires more room than a food service tray, and it's impossible for 90% of the population to eat using one of those when the seat in front of them is fully reclined.

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
The airline makes no promises that you will be able to fit your laptop onto the tray table. The tray table is intended to acommodate the food service trays, not your laptop. The airline would prefer if you left your laptop in the overhead bin.

And the airline makes no promises that you will be able to fully recline either. Point out the clause on your ticket or ticket jacket that promises the ability to fully recline your seat during the flight. You can't because you won't find it.

The fact remains that the space in front of someone's face is not yours for the taking. The fact is that when many of the people on planes recline they are being rude and ignorant of the needs of the person sitting behind them.

If it were up to me, I'd have all airlines disable the recline feature in all coach seats. If people want to recline, then let them pay the additional fare to upgrade to business or first class.

Quote:

Originally posted by JS:
I see. That's pretty unusual. Considering the number of mileage scams people attempt, please be sure to include this piece of information should it happen again so the rest of us don't assume you are one of the scammers. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Regarding the advertisement of seat recline, please provide an example. All the recline advertisements I see are in premium cabins, which I assume we are not discussing here.

Sorry for my omission, and confusion between seat pitch and recline. I am still jetlagged after a month of aquiring new accounts in AMS, plus I'm still sleeping on a couch for another week of bizz in MSN before I get home. I have seen airlines advertize seat recline. Although I dont recall which ones exactly, MRTC comes to mind. I apologize if anyone feels I have been abrasive, but when someone says they will kick me in the back if I recline my seat, I get a little defensive. Also, of course I agree that seats should be upright during meal service. I never said otherwise. Meal service is a legitimate reason for requiring no recline. A laptop, inflated self worth, or intollerance of the disabled are not.

Sorry, dupe again.

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

Quote:

Originally posted by clrankin:

The fact remains that the space in front of someone's face is not yours for the taking. The fact is that when many of the people on planes recline they are being rude and ignorant of the needs of the person sitting behind them.

You would appear to be confusing 'fact' with 'your opinion'.

I sure see lots of 'Facts' here http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif To be sure we all are talking the same language, Webster provides the following definitions for us ...

Quote:

Fact: The quality of being actual : ACTUALITY <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
1 a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality
- in fact : in truth

Quote:

Opinion:
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

Just to be clear, most all of the 'facts' presented so far in this thread are, in reality, just strongly held personal 'opinions.' And that's just the facts http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...rum/tongue.gif

GMF

[quote]Originally posted by clrankin:

Quote:

If it were up to me, I'd have all airlines disable the recline feature in all coach seats. If people want to recline, then let them pay the additional fare to upgrade to business or first class.

Quote:

I would hazzard a guess that most passengers are glad that it is not up to you.

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
Isn't there a rule about no personal attacks on flyertalk?

Sure there is. But there was no personal attack.

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
People like me? Disabled people have just as much right to fly as anyone else. The airline has no problem accommodating me. What's your excuse?

Exactly. Disabled people have just as much of a right to fly as anyone else. Not more. Not less. And that means that disabled people need to take everybody else's needs into consideration while on board the aircraft just as everybody else must take their needs into consideration.

I have no problem accommodating people, so long as I don't have anything that I need the tray table for. It just so happens that most of the time I fly I am flying on business and need to get some work done while in the air. That means I need to pull my laptop out and work. And that usually means I need the tray table down and will be annoyed by recliners.

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
I think 99% of passengers will agree that the 'nuisance' in this scenario would be the person harrassing the disabled man.

By the "harassing the disabled man" comment, may I infer that you would not hesitate to "ham it up" if someone prevented you from reclining? I'm not levelling a personal attack here; just personal curiousity... I'd really like to know what extent you would go to just to get your own way and make the other guy look like a jerk.

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
Even if I wasn't disabled, who the he!! do you think you are that you are more important than the other 75% of passengers who want to recline?

I'm sure you don't want to hear my answer to this question, but here goes anyway... I may not be any more important that you or anyone else on that plane, but I'm certainly not any less important. And I'm willing to stand up for what is mine. This includes my health, my enjoyment, and my personal space.

I'm a person that doesn't like to have seat backs jammed into my knees. I used to not really mind people reclining in front of me until a flight just a short while back. The person in front of me kept jamming the seat into my knees. It was jammed so roughly and so many times during the flight that one my knees-- the one which has been through a few surgeries (including open knee surgery, from an old football injury) was in pain for several days afterward. After this incident, I decided that I didn't have to put up with such things.

I'm also a person that likes to (and sometimes has to) get some work done while I'm on the plane. That means pulling out the laptop and working, which becomes very tricky on a completely full flight with the person in front of you fully reclined. IMO, my right to get some work done and play an occaisional game of solitare is just as important as the person trying to catch an hour or two of sleep.

And finally, I'm a person that has the right to be comfortable. Just as you have a right to consider yourself before others, I also have a right to consider myself and my needs before others. And there's nothing wrong with exercising this right.

[quote]Originally posted by clrankin:

Quote:

I'm also a person that likes to (and sometimes has to) get some work done while I'm on the plane. That means pulling out the laptop and working, which becomes very tricky on a completely full flight with the person in front of you fully reclined. IMO, my right to get some work done and play an occaisional game of solitare is just as important as the person trying to catch an hour or two of sleep.

And finally, I'm a person that has the right to be comfortable. Just as you have a right to consider yourself before others, I also have a right to consider myself and my needs before others. And there's nothing wrong with exercising this right.

Quote:

Again. I do not sleep on airplanes. Again, you have no 'right' to use your laptop on the plane. If you 'need' to use a laptop, then you 'need' to charter your own plane. Ask any FA and they will tell you that accommodating a disabled pasenger is more important than accommodating your laptop. As for your knees, I am truly sorry that you chose to play football and injure your knee. I sympathize with your few days of pain or discomfort, since I live with pain every day. I don't play football. I was born with a spinal condition called Spina Bifida Occulta, which causes me severe pain and muscle spasms, some days are worse, some days are better. I do not put my needs above yours or anyones. If you beleive that my disability makes me a jerk because it inconveniences you in some way, or that I should have to suffer severe pain to accommodate your laptop due to your irresponsibility in not getting your work done before getting on the plane, I pity you. You are clearly more crippled than I.

[This message has been edited by HigherFlyer (edited Dec 04, 2003).]

Quote:

Originally posted by clrankin:

I'm a person that doesn't like to have seat backs jammed into my knees. I used to not really mind people reclining in front of me until a flight just a short while back. The person in front of me kept jamming the seat into my knees. It was jammed so roughly and so many times during the flight that one my knees-- the one which has been through a few surgeries (including open knee surgery, from an old football injury) was in pain for several days afterward. After this incident, I decided that I didn't have to put up with such things.

I have had the same thing happen to me once. Thank goodness it happens very rarely.

For the 1% of the flying population who doesn't get it, screaming "Ow, god**** it!" will get the point across.

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"It's as easy as 1, 2, C" -- Kelly, Married With Children

The last I was on a plane, there were seats specifically noted for use of diabled passengers. They had a little more room.

Why don't you get one of those?

Mary

Quote:

Originally posted by HigherFlyer:
Again. I do not sleep on airplanes. Again, you have no 'right' to use your laptop on the plane. If you 'need' to use a laptop, then you 'need' to charter your own plane. Ask any FA and they will tell you that accommodating a disabled pasenger is more important than accommodating your laptop. As for your knees, I am truly sorry that you chose to play football and injure your knee. I sympathize with your few days of pain or discomfort, since I live with pain every day. I don't play football. I was born with a spinal condition called Spina Bifida Occulta, which causes me severe pain and muscle spasms, some days are worse, some days are better. I do not put my needs above yours or anyones. If you beleive that my disability makes me a jerk because it inconveniences you in some way, or that I should have to suffer severe pain to accommodate your laptop due to your irresponsibility in not getting your work done before getting on the plane, I pity you. You are clearly more crippled than I.

Just curious (no trick questions here, I promise) ...

Do you keep your seat up during taxi, takeoff and landing?

Do you keep your seat up during meal service?

Do you recline partially if the seat stops short of full recline because the person behind you is tall?

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"It's as easy as 1, 2, C" -- Kelly, Married With Children