Take Off Your Shoes Or We Will Wand You!!!
Jun 2, 2003, 3:36 pm
#31
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Posts: 290
Each week I have the opportunity to refuse to take off my shoes (leather slip-ons, shankless) when going through EWR or LGA. Last week I was told that I had to remove them, despite my assurances that my shoes were fine. The reason stated was that "We're on high alert now, sir" - despite the fact that (AFAIK) NYC has been on orange alert for the better part of 2 years now.
I complied, knowing that continued refusal would likely have resulted in the rubber glove treatment - a violation I'd prefer not to have to tolerate. Hopefully the reduction in alert level brings about an improvement (i.e., a return to the normal levels of stupidity we endure).
-Zombie-
I complied, knowing that continued refusal would likely have resulted in the rubber glove treatment - a violation I'd prefer not to have to tolerate. Hopefully the reduction in alert level brings about an improvement (i.e., a return to the normal levels of stupidity we endure).
-Zombie-
Jun 2, 2003, 5:19 pm
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by eMailman:
Current security measures will not prevent C-4 or razor blades from getting through. They are trying, but it simply can't work if people are going to be allowed to travel.
The last line of defense is on board the aircraft, not the airport. The key is to prevent the air pirates from gaining control of the aircraft. That was the flaw that allowed 3 of the 4 planes to be crashed into buildings.
The foiled plans were a result of the actions of other PAX. (plane 4 and Reid)
Logic would dictate that we go with what has been effective in the past. We have no way to assess the future, but by the experience of the past.</font>
Current security measures will not prevent C-4 or razor blades from getting through. They are trying, but it simply can't work if people are going to be allowed to travel.
The last line of defense is on board the aircraft, not the airport. The key is to prevent the air pirates from gaining control of the aircraft. That was the flaw that allowed 3 of the 4 planes to be crashed into buildings.
The foiled plans were a result of the actions of other PAX. (plane 4 and Reid)
Logic would dictate that we go with what has been effective in the past. We have no way to assess the future, but by the experience of the past.</font>
Jun 2, 2003, 10:03 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Land of TSA
Posts: 4
I work for the Tsa and I can tell you that this is not a Policy. Taking off your shoes is completely up to the customer. If you have any questions or ideas to improve the screening process Please ask to talk to a Supervisor or Screening Manager. We are here for you not the other way around.
[This message has been edited by Kain99 (edited 06-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kain99 (edited 06-02-2003).]
Jun 2, 2003, 10:16 pm
#34
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,579
According to TSA at DEN A-bridge and EWR terminal C, it actually is a new policy that applies to all passengers and all footwear.
Incidentally, TSA at EWR were fawning over my old-skool Kangaroos today when the x-ray machine spit 'em out. Asked me where I got 'em.
It's hard to get upset at these guys when they're adapting to these silly rules with a bit of humor.
Incidentally, TSA at EWR were fawning over my old-skool Kangaroos today when the x-ray machine spit 'em out. Asked me where I got 'em.
It's hard to get upset at these guys when they're adapting to these silly rules with a bit of humor.
Jun 2, 2003, 10:16 pm
#35
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Land of TSA
Posts: 4
Our Website has a lot of info that can help people get to their flight quickly.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/index.jsp
Hope this helps.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/index.jsp
Hope this helps.
Jun 2, 2003, 10:38 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Land of TSA
Posts: 4
All airports are supposed to be the same as far as screening goes, but I know they are not. I travel a lot like most here and see how differnt they are. I have read a lot of post about the TSA on this site some supporting but most are just complaints. THe one thing that stands out is that no one writes or talk with TSA administration about improvements. We pay our taxes for security so why don't we try to make the most of our money. It's up to the American people to make this work.
Jun 2, 2003, 11:35 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,349
Welcome to FlyerTalk, Kain99!
For more discussion of this topic, please see:
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000109.html
Many have written, called, talked to checkpoint supervisors, etc ... it normally turns out to be a lesson in frustration or, in the case of writing/calling, a complete waste of time. I have only heard of one person even getting a response
------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
For more discussion of this topic, please see:
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000109.html
Many have written, called, talked to checkpoint supervisors, etc ... it normally turns out to be a lesson in frustration or, in the case of writing/calling, a complete waste of time. I have only heard of one person even getting a response
------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Jun 3, 2003, 1:53 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Kain99:
I work for the Tsa and I can tell you that this is not a Policy. Taking off your shoes is completely up to the customer. If you have any questions or ideas to improve the screening process Please ask to talk to a Supervisor or Screening Manager. We are here for you not the other way around.
</font>
I work for the Tsa and I can tell you that this is not a Policy. Taking off your shoes is completely up to the customer. If you have any questions or ideas to improve the screening process Please ask to talk to a Supervisor or Screening Manager. We are here for you not the other way around.
</font>
Jun 3, 2003, 7:11 am
#39
Moderator: Hyatt Gold Passport & Star Alliance
Join Date: May 1998
Location: London, UK
Programs: UA-1K 3MM/HY- LT Globalist/BA-GGL/GfL
Posts: 12,103
As the summer is nearly here and lots of people appear to wear no socks, it will be interesting to see how many foot based diseases will be passed on in this way.
My experience is that ORD are asking for the removal of shoes, but that SJU are not at present.
My experience is that ORD are asking for the removal of shoes, but that SJU are not at present.
Jun 3, 2003, 7:48 am
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: Delta PM, United Premier Executive, AirTran Elite, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Gold VIP, Her
Posts: 364
I sent an email to the TSA last Friday and have yet to hear anything back. I'm surprised their email system doesn't even have an automatic email response system that says thank you for your questions/comments we will get back to you with a response...or something like that. My next step is to write to my congressman and senators.
Jun 5, 2003, 11:53 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 38,698
I have not received a response from TSA although I've emailed them once or twice. Glad I didn't hold my breath.
In DEN I was running late but I refused to take my shoes off. They seconardy seached me including taking my shoes and x-raying them, which I guess is the reason they want us to take our shoes off.
I will continue to refuse to take off my shoes and will be secondary searched. That is the only way that the system will change -- I am doing my part to inconvenience them and therefore force some reform.
Meanwhile, maintain a cheery attitude about the whole thing and have fun flying!
In DEN I was running late but I refused to take my shoes off. They seconardy seached me including taking my shoes and x-raying them, which I guess is the reason they want us to take our shoes off.
I will continue to refuse to take off my shoes and will be secondary searched. That is the only way that the system will change -- I am doing my part to inconvenience them and therefore force some reform.
Meanwhile, maintain a cheery attitude about the whole thing and have fun flying!
Jun 5, 2003, 11:59 am
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: Delta PM, United Premier Executive, AirTran Elite, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Gold VIP, Her
Posts: 364
Ok, I'm somewhat impressed. I actually got a response today.
"We are sorry you were unhappy with your recent travel experience.
Because your complaint is regarding screening at Regan Washington National Airport, we have forwarded a copy of your email to the Customer Support Manager at that airport. The Customer Support Manager is responsible for ensuring that the screening workforce adheres to TSA principles for professional processing.
TSA Contact Center"
My problem with this response is that I wasn't complaining about a problem with the airport, I was complaining about a problem with their policy. So maybe this was just their way of passing on the blame.
"We are sorry you were unhappy with your recent travel experience.
Because your complaint is regarding screening at Regan Washington National Airport, we have forwarded a copy of your email to the Customer Support Manager at that airport. The Customer Support Manager is responsible for ensuring that the screening workforce adheres to TSA principles for professional processing.
TSA Contact Center"
My problem with this response is that I wasn't complaining about a problem with the airport, I was complaining about a problem with their policy. So maybe this was just their way of passing on the blame.
Jun 5, 2003, 3:32 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Newark, CA
Posts: 53
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Markie:
As the summer is nearly here and lots of people appear to wear no socks, it will be interesting to see how many foot based diseases will be passed on in this way.
My experience is that ORD are asking for the removal of shoes, but that SJU are not at present.</font>
As the summer is nearly here and lots of people appear to wear no socks, it will be interesting to see how many foot based diseases will be passed on in this way.
My experience is that ORD are asking for the removal of shoes, but that SJU are not at present.</font>
Erik.
Jun 5, 2003, 9:19 pm
#45
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,579
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:
In DEN I was running late but I refused to take my shoes off. They seconardy seached me including taking my shoes and x-raying them, which I guess is the reason they want us to take our shoes off.
I will continue to refuse to take off my shoes and will be secondary searched. That is the only way that the system will change -- I am doing my part to inconvenience them and therefore force some reform.
</font>
In DEN I was running late but I refused to take my shoes off. They seconardy seached me including taking my shoes and x-raying them, which I guess is the reason they want us to take our shoes off.
I will continue to refuse to take off my shoes and will be secondary searched. That is the only way that the system will change -- I am doing my part to inconvenience them and therefore force some reform.
</font>
Keep in mind, each person that requires secondary screening further justifies the hordes of TSA at each checkpoint. I bet TSA dudes don't really care about their own "inconvenience" - it's their job to do secondary screenings. It might be better if your "civil disobedience" was actually directed at the decision makers in this process, and not at your fellow travelers and the grunts at the x-ray machines.
[This message has been edited by JeremyZ (edited 06-05-2003).]