Age -- Why is manditory retirement such a bad idea? It works for Pilots, Policemen, Firemen, and other saftey related people. The facts are that reflexes slow as you age. The other option (or maybe both) would be to require a physician sign off (aka Medical Cert) for flight attendents, much like Piolets -- but again, you cant get a Class III medical cert (required for commercial pilots) after 60.

Selection -- I don't know the answer to this, but I doubt that FA's a routinely screened for mental health issues -- pilots, firefighters, etc. are. In some cases every 6 months.

Saftey Training -- Know your aircraft, know the passengers, and know your saftey equipment. How about requiring all FA's to be an RN or paramedic? This would go a lot further into the saftey aspects than other issues. I can't tell you, as someone who regularly travels with physicians, how helpless many FA's seem to be at the sight of an actual heart attack, spiking fever, asthma attack, or other medical emergency.

I really don't mean to upset anyone (but probably will), but the FA's as currently contemplated by the airlines are service people first, their saftey aspects take a back seat to both the airline and the union. I used to wait tables -- and I have no problem with people choosing to be in a service industry; however, don't kid yourself. The hiring process and employment goals of FA's would have to be totally revamped for them to become dedicated saftey personnel in a true sense.

By "commercial" I assume you mean an airline transport pilot ("ATP"). An ATP rating requires a 1st class medical certificate, a commercial requires at least a 2nd class medical, us private pilots at least a 3rd class, and the new sport pilots need to show their driver's license.

See FARs Part 61.11 & 61.23.

You are of course correct, I got my numbers reversed. I was for some reason thinking of airport approach classifications rather than med certs....

There are no age limits on any of the medical certificates.


There is no mental health screening for pilots other than the pilot having to report any treatment on his medical application form.

The certificates do not require a medical other than at the time of original issue. It is the operation conducted that triggers the requirement for a higher level of medical. Most airline first officers have an ATP but they are not required to maintain a first class medical, only a second class medical is needed.

Wow, kalia...good to know that you have such a low opinion of us!

Personally, I am proud of the work that I do, and I can see the pride that most of my co-workers take in their work as well.

When I interviewed for my job, I was asked to place the following in order of importance: safety, service, job satisfaction, customer satisfaction. My response was that they're all equally important, and that they all feed off of each other. If I'm happy with my job, then it shows in my service - and my customers are happy. If my customers are happy, then I have satisfaction with my job because I'm working with pleasant people - and it shows in my service. If I'm keeping current on those safety measures for which I'm responsible and take it seriously, then it shows in my service and professionalism - and my customers' comfort levels increase in that kind of environment. And so on and so forth..our job is to get you to your destination safely AND comfortably - most FA's I know and work with take pride in both aspects of their job.

I've said it before: we are like lifeguards...most of the time, there are no emergencies to manage, no sick or injured passengers, no unruly passengers who (truly) are threats. But when those things do occur, we do know how to manage and deal with them. In those instances, the safety aspects of our work do take priority over the service.

If the attitude you described truly is the rarity and not the norm, then perhaps you are flying with the wrong people. I didn't look at your profile before beginning this response, so I don't know who you spend most of your time in the air with (and wouldn't it be sad and funny if it were my airline, after the rambling I've just done? ) But seriously, the image you describe is very poor...and since the vast majority of my co-workers don't fit it, I find it difficult to believe. Certainly those FA's exist, as all stereotypes do exist, but they are not representative of the whole.

I've never like the idea of mandatory retirement ages, only because I know many older people who are fit as fiddles and sharp as tacks - and many younger people who need a little work, to put it diplomatically. I think a better idea, and one that I'd support enthusiastically, would be requiring a physical every so many years...FA's wouldn't need the stringent exams that pilots must undergo, but a certain level of fitness and strength should be displayed. We do undergo medical exams upon being hired (at least where I work - not sure if this is required by the FAA), in order to show that we're physically capable of doing the job. I would support a periodic revisiting of that...say every 5 years or so.

Well, not all firefighters are screened for mental health issues. Trust me on that one! Most, but not all, firefighters/etc are subject to critical incident stress debriefing after high-stress calls - and most airlines have similar programs in place for their FA's and other employees as well. Pilots are not screened for mental health issues either, though there are requirements that certain problems be reported. There is, however, some informal screening...FA trainees are closely observed for the 5 or 6 weeks in a fairly high-pressure environment - and some are invited to leave if behavioral problems crop up.

It seems obvious, but perhaps it isn't...very little of our initial training is spent covering service. Virtually all of it pertains to aircraft familiarization, emergency equipment operation and location on each aircraft, emergency management, first aid and CPR, evacuation procedures, etc. The time spent and topics covered are mandated by the FAA, and all FA's must pass written and practical exams on each aircraft and on each piece of emergency equipment. If you fail, you get one additional chance - fail that, and you're out.

As for requiring FA's to be licensed health care providers...well that's another ball of wax altogether. In the early days of commercial flight, most attendants were male stewards. There were no stewardesses, despite the steretypical images most of us know! It wasn't until some realized that nurses would be desirable that female stewardesses came along. And now, many airlines do lend some hiring preference to those with a healthcare background. I am a paramedic, but scope of practice would still limit what I can do for an ill or injured passenger on board one of my planes. Requiring us to be licensed providers would create quite a lot of issues: liability, the need for medical direction from MD's, the issues of crossing state and national borders - not to mention paying FA's the premium we'd deserve if we were all qualified in this manner. That's a hefty price to pay in your tickets, especially considering that medical emergencies are not terribly common in the air.

But that's not to say that we're without resources - our training, for one. Our emergency manuals also provide some direction for many medical issues that may crop up. We have quite a lot of equipment on board, including AED's (which have been successfully used on passengers at my airline). And US airlines have MedLink, which is invaluable! They can talk us through anything, give medical direction to others if medications need to be given/etc, can coordinate priority landings with EMS services on the ground, and more.

As for FA's being helpless...well, it can be scary I'm sure. I have a lot of experience dealing with medical emergencies, but dealing with them at 30,000ft and with limited equipment/medication and limited space, with no backup (EMS, hospitals) immediately available - all the while coordinating with the pilots and dealing with 100 other passengers - well yes, that can be scary, especially if you're looking at someone who is critically ill. I think helpless is an accurate word, since there is often little that can be done other than cross your fingers and land asap. But we deal as best we can, and some will be stronger in this area than others.

It varies by airline. On NW, hostility towards passengers is the norm, and this has rubbed off on KLM too. UA is somewhat like NW, cattle car run by prison guards. AA is OK, the veneer is generally pleasant although it's often a thin veneer. On BA, the mood is largely upbeat and sincerely helpful. I won't fly Southwest because of the clowning.

Of course it also varies by load. On a half-empty plane, there were smiles and jokes, and the FA chatted with me about how February (transatlantic) was a brief period of respite between the holiday and summer rushes. Of course, what she meant was respite from people like me, the cattle in the cattle car.

PS Surliness may not be the norm, but only a little of it is needed to set the tone and to be what a passenger remembers. On your plane, aren't announcements made to the effect that "We're primarily there for your safety..."? Well, that may make you feel good, but it doesn't make me feel good about you. It sounds like insecurity to me.

With so many FA's, you'll never know what you'll get. So be ready in case of a problem. I always count thnumber of rows to an exit.

Some FA's say this...it's not in the stuff the company wants us to say. I have said it once or twice, but it's not in my usual speech. Most don't say it to "prove" anything though - they say it because they want you to pay attention to the demo (or at least not chatter away through it), which is why you probably hear it most often right before the safety stuff gets started.

It gets pretty annoying and frustrating after a while...especially when people are talking and laughing loudly, or when they do stuff like one man on a recent flight of mine: right in the middle of it, he stands up, gets his suitcase out of the overhead bin, opens it up and starts to rearrange everything. Ignoring the fact that he missed it (he was not a FF), and that he was distracting and in the way of others - it's just really rude.

Sentiments like the one you mentioned are usually borne out of that frustration.

It may not be obvious, but its there (or should be). A pilot -- even a private pilot -- cannot recieve a medical cert if he suffers from a serious mental disorder. Items such as depression, bipolar, PTSD, and simular will ground you for life (note, by going through the FAA Medical Officer people with depression are often granted a waiver after treatment).

The physician that signs that cert is testifying to the FAA that there are no mental health issues. If he chooses to not perform formal screening, that's his option. However, for most cases 4-5 questions will pick up 95% of mental health issues, thus they usually do it in a non-threatening way (or where its not even noticed).

The issue with medical personnel wasn't so much what they can or can't perform at 30,000 feet, but rather if they even have the knowledge to attempt it. A true dedication to passenger saftey would have a physician on the ground to direct in flight emergencies (same as an ER doc at the hospital), create response protocols for various issues, standing orders, etc. As I haven't yet seen airlines or the AFA push for this, I assume its not important to them.

Yes, AED's are a good option; however, in over 65 years of combined medical practice at one rural location I am familiar with, there has only been 1 case where an AED would have been useful -- and even then it was questionable. Much more useful would be a stock of drugs like epinepherine, heprin, lidocaine, morphine, etc. A BP cuff would also be useful (but may already be on the planes).

We already have that - it's a service called MedLink that I mentioned earlier. (See www.medaire.com for more information).


Actually, AED's are much more useful than that in most cardiac arrest events. We know that early defibrillation is vital, with rural communities and other venues (like airplanes) that have no immediate access to EMS benefitting the most. There have been several studies confirming that survivability increases dramatically when AED's are available. Our enhanced medical kit also contains some medications - including cardiac epi.

I'll believe that flight attendants are "primarily here for your safety" when the airlines do what they did in the early days of passenger travel- hire only Registered Nurses as FAs.

I do have to say it...airlines cut back on food for money purposes. It saves a whole lot of cash, and well, airline food stinks anyway.

They rely mostly on self disclosure on the medical application form. There are no required tests for mental disorders on the pilot medicals. Each AME is free to add whatever additional tests they want, of course, but there are plenty of docs out there that do only the minimum. Pilots are also free to choose whichever AME they prefer.

My 1st class medicals take about ten minutes, including filling out the paperwork. This particular AME is a retired AAL pilot and has a steady stream of airline pilots filling his office at the rate of about five or six per hour.