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Dear Jackal : Per your question I recommend the Dorling Kindersley Travel Guide books or " DK " as they are known. I've purchased several of them over the years for travel all over Europe and Asia. Beautifully color illustrated, the self-guided walking tours easy to navigate and very informative.
There is nothing wrong with budget travel; I like to save a buck myself. I just can't stand Rick Steve's golly-gee travel comments and his near low self-esteem tips for eating, lodging, and touring. I read his travel guides in past years for visiting Venice and Florence and frankly was shocked at his recommendations and suggestions. I don't believe in penny-pinching when I travel, life is too short for that. I have met just as many locals staying at a nice hotel than staying at one with the bathroom down the hall ! No thanks ! Happy travels ! |
Originally Posted by 777Lover2
(Post 11484988)
Dear Jackal : Per your question I recommend the Dorling Kindersley Travel Guide books or " DK " as they are known. I've purchased several of them over the years for travel all over Europe and Asia. Beautifully color illustrated, the self-guided walking tours easy to navigate and very informative.
There is nothing wrong with budget travel; I like to save a buck myself. I just can't stand Rick Steve's golly-gee travel comments and his near low self-esteem tips for eating, lodging, and touring. I read his travel guides in past years for visiting Venice and Florence and frankly was shocked at his recommendations and suggestions. I don't believe in penny-pinching when I travel, life is too short for that. I have met just as many locals staying at a nice hotel than staying at one with the bathroom down the hall ! No thanks ! Happy travels ! The cutaway views of museums, cathedrals, and quarter walking tours are nice to look at, but the text is stoic and uninteresting (and, IMHO, often uninformative), and the hotel listings are useless unless you're keen on spending a few hundred dollars/Euros/pounds/whatevers per night. I'd much rather have a Lonely Planet book or Let's Go Guide or--yes, Rick Steves book--to cut through the crap and tell me what's worth seeing. Too many times I've been enticed to see something that looked interesting in an Eyewitness guide (though in any given city's Eyewitness guide, I'll probably highlight only about 10-20% of the listed sights as ones that pique my interest). LP, LG, and RS tell me what's worth seeing, and after matching it up to the Eyewitness guide, I've found I can more or less wholly agree with their recommendations. (That is, I have yet to find a memorable sight that was listed in an Eyewitness guide that wasn't listed in at least LP, the most comprehensive of the three I mentioned.) I like to cut through the crap and get meaty recommendations with a bit of personality behind them, and I'm not keen on spending a full day's pay at a fancy hotel, so I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just my $.02 (feel free to convert to your preferred currency ;))... |
Pros and cons to each one.
I do like the DK guides and found the Lonely Planet (and other guides) a bit skimpy on the details. More than once the DK guides have outlined "special areas of interest" within a building/place that other guides have glanced over or not mentioned at all. |
I read the Insight Guides for inspiration and cultural and historical background and then use Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, and (if going to Europe) Rick Steves to figure out the details. (I'm not a luxury traveler.)
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Originally Posted by ElkeNorEast
(Post 11483959)
I remain unconvinced and still think the tours are very overpriced. Below I insert the "London for 7 Days" itinerary from the Rick Steves website. Before that I will give a detailed reasoning for my belief. I will base my calculations on 28 tour participants, all sharing rooms.
Having spent many years in hotels I have no doubt that these groups get preferred pricing on hotel rooms, probably not spending more than $250 per night inclusive of VAT. Since the pricing is double, I'm going to estimate 14 rooms. 14 rooms x 6 nights = 84 room nights x $250 = $21,000. Also, I am willing to wager that they purchase London Passes for all tour group members that will get them admission into the Tower of London, Windsor Castle, Westminster Abbey, St. Pauls, etc. These go for 68 quid each for the guy on the street, and I have no idea if they get a discount on them (I would guess they would but will not assume) so let's estimate $100 x 28 tourists = $2800. Breakfast is included each day so let's say $500 per day for that. $500 x 6 days - $3000 Transport pass including trip to Windsor: $100 per person (estimated) x 28 people = $2800 The itinerary: Day 1: Arrive in London Look for a note posted in the hotel lobby telling you where and when to meet this afternoon. We'll get together around 3 p.m. to get acquainted, before setting off for an orientation walk and dinner together. Walking: light. Dinner: $35 per person x 28 = ~$1000 Day 2: Westminster Abbey and the Tower This morning we'll hop a boat and cruise past monuments, skyscrapers, and cathedrals on our way to the Tower of London, the city's historic "tower of power." We'll join a Yeoman Warder "Beefeater" for an entertaining tour and a peek at the impressive Crown Jewels. In the afternoon, we'll tour Britain's finest church, Westminster Abbey. Then we'll finish the day with a traditional fish-and-chips dinner. Walking: strenuous. Dinner: $25 per person x 28 = $700 Day 3: Whitehall and the National Gallery We'll take a historic stroll through the Westminster/Whitehall area, including stops to visit the Churchill Museum and Cabinet War Rooms and gaze at Big Ben. This afternoon, we'll dodge pigeons in Trafalgar Square and marvel at the masterpieces in the National Gallery before dispersing in the late afternoon for free time. This would be a perfect evening for the theater (book something in advance from the Colonies or pick up a ticket in London). Walking: moderate. Everything this day is covered by the London Pass or is free. Day 4: St. Paul's Cathedral and the City This morning we will take a tour of St. Paul's Cathedral, the symbol of London and England's national church. Then we'll explore The City, the oldest part of London and now its financial heart. The afternoon is free for you to enjoy one of London's many museums (perhaps the Victoria & Albert Museum) or wander through one of its many parks. This is another good night for the theater. Walking: strenuous. Everything this day is covered by the London Pass or is free. Day 5: Historic Windsor Castle This morning we'll hop on a train and head out of town to Windsor Castle, the largest and oldest occupied castle in the world. We'll spend the morning touring the Royal Family's castle and grounds. After free time in the quaint town of Windsor, the remainder of the afternoon is yours for sightseeing back in London. Walking: strenuous. Train to Windor included in travel pass Day 6: The British Museum and Library This morning we'll dive into the treasures of the British Library, including the Magna Carta, Gutenberg's Bible — even Beatles lyrics! Then we're off to the British Museum, the chronicle of Western Civilization. The rest of the afternoon is free for more museums, Covent Garden, or other sightseeing. Tonight we'll meet for our "last supper" and raise a toast to London. Walking: strenuous. Dinner: $45 per person x 28 = $1260 Day 7: Tour Over After Breakfast Following breakfast, we'll say our final farewells and head for home or further adventures in Britain or on the Continent. Adding up all of these expenses I come to a total of roughly $33,000. The total paid by the travelers, at $1995 each, is $55,860. That leaves approximately $22,860 The tour guide: I am going to be generous and assume he makes $2000 per tour, so that's $20,860 profit. I will not go into overhead, administrative expenses, etc but I would bet again that they are a darn sight short of $20,800 per WEEK per TOUR. Discounts for multiple tours? If I took a tour, got wise to the real costs and then did the math you'd have to give me a discount too if you wanted me to book again! Cancellation insurance? With a profit margin that large you can afford someone to drop off and they'll come back since you were so generous in letting them cancel before. I have never taken a Rick Steves tour. I don't know anyone who has. I am sure they give great peace of mind to those who take them, and they are happy as larks and feel it's good value. Personally, I still think they're being ripped off. Just MO, though. ;) RS runs hundreds of tours per year. Some fill up, others don't. On some, perhaps the profit IS as high as you estimate. I don't really know. Others are probably more of a break-even deal, or in some cases even a loss. RS guarantees his tour prices (or at least used to -- I think he still does) against things like currency exchange fluctuations and other kinds of price fluctuations. No doubt he's taken a hit some years because of this, though perhaps he's come out ahead other years. For the tour consumer, though, the fixed price gives some peace of mind. When you pay for a tour, you are paying someone else to make the travel arrangements, paying for a certain style of traveling (a style that RS fans like but RS haters obviously do not), paying for the comfort of having instant travel companions, paying for a full-time guide who provides more or less constant info, help, and suggestions, paying for door-to-door transportation (bus and/or train) between and within cities. If someone wants to pay for those things, they are not getting ripped off. Interestingly, a lot of (perhaps most) RS tour members also do independent travel before and/or after a tour. They are not incapable of planning their own travel; rather, they are happy to pay for a package which (at the very least) provides a more carefree interlude between bouts of their own independent travel. Such a package is just fundamentally different from traveling on one's own -- it's a different animal. Therefore, comparing the cost of independent travel to the cost of RS (or any other) tours is (for many consumers anyhow) like comparing apples and oranges. (Yeah, I know that apples and oranges are not animals -- whatever! :p) In any case, it sounds like you are just against group tours, have never been on one, have convinced yourself they are a ripoff, and it's unlikely that anything will convince you otherwise. This seems like a generic argument, rather than anything specifically against RS in particular. |
Believe it or not, it is actually possible to enjoy different styles of travel as well as use different kinds of guidebooks! Some of us are not such snobs that we insist on 4 or 5 star hotels every time we go anywhere, though we may indeed stay in pretty fancy digs SOME or even MOST of the time! ;)
And BTW, most of RS's hotel recommendations don't have a "bathroom down the hall" anymore, in part because European hotels, even many of the fairly modest ones, have added ensuite facilities to their rooms in recent decades. Also, RS in general recommends a range of accommodation types (from modest to luxurious). This point has been stated over and over in this thread, yet the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to some, who seem to keep insisting that RS-recommended hotels all have "bathrooms down the hall." Try actually reading his guides (the current ones, not the ones published 10-20 years ago) rather than merely parroting others' putdowns of them. @:-) |
I happened to see a talk Steves gave in January on Book TV today. It was on a trip he recently made to Iran, but a couple of things he said struck a note for this topic.
First, he said his tours will handle about 8,000 travelers this year. So if he clears $500 per traveler, thats 400k-not much for a guy who grosses $30 million a year. Second, he said most of his tour travelers were not on the beginner tours but the advanced ones, which involve mostly repeat business. I think I'd give more weight to the opinion of folks who like his tours enough to come back for more, than I would to those who dissect meal costs from his website. Steves says his business is for those who wish to travel to learn, not judge. That explains his appeal, and may explain why he draws folks on FT who "hate" him. |
I know very little about the guy, other than we're supposed to like him because he's a pothead (respect for that) and I saw one of his shows - on Spain. The guy is a jackass. The travel for dummies thing doesn't really bother me, but the way he - in this one show, in a place I happen to know something about - just slathered his own smarmy POV on everything that was going on around him, completely preventing any actual culture from being absorbed. It was almost as if he were guiding a tour through a diorama. In particular I remember a trip to a tapas bar in Sevilla where he made ridiculous suppositions about the origin of the food as the bar staff stood aside and rolled their eyes. And insisted on saying "olé!" all the time. About the second time I wanted to reach through the TV and punch him in the face.
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Originally Posted by Roy2CDG
(Post 11482373)
I'm just curious...
Is there a "I Hate Rudy Maxa" thread somewhere? :D |
Originally Posted by Mountain Trader
(Post 11489778)
...
First, he said his tours will handle about 8,000 travelers this year. So if he clears $500 per traveler, thats 400k-not much for a guy who grosses $30 million a year. ... |
Originally Posted by 777Lover2
(Post 11484988)
There is nothing wrong with budget travel; I like to save a buck myself. I just can't stand Rick Steve's golly-gee travel comments and his near low self-esteem tips for eating, lodging, and touring.
The last straw for me was when Rick seriously suggested eating other peoples' leftovers from dirty plates in cafeterias as a money-saving tool. |
Umm.. for those doing the math..
Rick Steves tours are a budget/value option compared to other tour operators. A 7-day London/Paris Adventures by Disney tour starts at $3,999. That's twice what the similar Steves tour costs. |
Originally Posted by Helena Handbaskets
(Post 11490179)
$500 x 8,000 pax is $4 million.
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Originally Posted by alanw
(Post 11490098)
The guy is a jackass. The travel for dummies thing doesn't really bother me, but the way he - in this one show, in a place I happen to know something about - just slathered his own smarmy POV on everything that was going on around him, completely preventing any actual culture from being absorbed. It was almost as if he were guiding a tour through a diorama.
Someone gave me the RS DVD on Germany - I was so repulsed, that I threw it away in the garbage, rather than donate it to my local library, which is what I usually do with my used DVDs. |
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 11490414)
Umm.. for those doing the math..
Rick Steves tours are a budget/value option compared to other tour operators. A 7-day London/Paris Adventures by Disney tour starts at $3,999. That's twice what the similar Steves tour costs. |
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