Well I recently did my first trip to the US, and having read several FT rants on the subject, was quaking in my shoes as I approached security in ORD. And was really, pleasantly surprised - yes, there was a queue, but it was moving briskly. Staff were polite, even courteous (more so than in the UK) bags were checked thoroughly (though could get very fed up at taking the laptop out of the bag - my one gripe - they either need better experienced staff or better equipment). And then I was through - and for the rest of the trip it didn't get much worse than that. Had one instance where they decided that there were too many metallic objects in my handbag (purse in American), but the lady searching it was friendly and professional. All in all, impressed, especially given how quickly it has all been set up.

But what was surprising was the difference in security on the UK - US sector, where check-in procedures were much stricter, and apparently, FAA mandated. Shouldn't they be doing that everywhere? There's absolutely no point doing it on international flights only.
And I am concerned that this means the US has still not fully learned what airline and airport security is about. But I hope that they have raised the bar enough!

From what I can figure some US citizens accept it as security, others accept it as security but a breach of their rights and other just reject it completely because they reckon it breaches their rights.

As I mentioned earlier the US government is waking up to terrorism but some of the citizens aren't. Anything like the UK and it'll get more streamlined with time.

Nigel

I figure a knife is a weapon and after 911 I'm sure boxcutters are considered so in the US. Football hooligans over here have used them for years as weapons.

Red eye, dark cabin, terrorist/madman with a knife, people asleep. Rather you than me, doesn't take long to slit a few throats.

Don't know about in the US but in the UK security ( including random searches ) are a way of deterring an attempt in the first instance not just stopping one that's planned.

What about my earlier post Spiff ? About being photographed at security and then the picture being viewed at the gate. Also my thoughts that the picture is compared with known suspects on a central database, Would that be a breach of rights ?

One more thing while I'm here < G >. In the case of people that don't agree with the security as it is, whether it's unconstitutional or they just don't like it what would you put in its place ?

Oh and bear this in mind, 10% of the Female prison population in the UK consists of Jamaican drug smugglers. They are paid/threatened/ their families threatened until they agree to smuggle into the UK. They are also told that the UK authorities will just deport them back to Jamaica ( wrong ).

Most of the drugs are swallowed but some is hidden in fruit, tourist trinkets, strapped to the body or just packed in a suitcase hoping not to get pulled at UK customs. Now, what if one is given a bomb instead of drugs ? they're hardly going to unwrap it and check first particularly if it's strapped onto the body.

Nigel

A knife is no longer a credible weapon with which to hijack an airplane. It can kill, but it can kill on the ground, too. A person wanting to kill a few sleeping travelers could just as easily break their necks. Possibly even more easily since the person with the slit throat may run/flail for awhile before bleeding to death, thus alerting other potential victims to the assassin.

Deterrence should be accomplished by good, reliable technology, competent people operating said technology, and the promise of a quick, violent response against anyone stupid enough to try something like hijacking an airplane. "Random security" is an example of the ends not justifying the means. Hassling people without probable cause is not worth the possibility of a microscopic bit of additional safety. At least that's an American (or some Americans') point of view.

I do not welcome the prospect of your photographic security expanding outside the UK. I doubt our US government would discard all pictures taken of passengers who are not criminals and retain only a small database of known criminals.

Bomb mules can be dealt with in exactly the same manner as terrorists: through effective use of technology.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Actually, it's because many of us believe there is a solution that both prevents terrorism and preserves people's rights, privacy, and dignity. We question rash solutions that over-solve the problem while costing insane amounts of money.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

As far as it invading your constitutional rights, that is incorrect. You have the right to make the choice of providing your own transportation or air travel or any other form of travel. You know what goes on for air travel. This is your right. It is by choice you choose air travel knowing what is going to happen or could happen. Speak loudly and someday the government may make changes.

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When in doubt www.PlaneFriends.com

Those facts have been pointed out to Spiff on numberous occasions. Doesn't make any difference. He's going by what he THINKS the Consitution says, not what the courts have determined that it says.

Evidently, your reading skills are right up there with your probability and image processing skills, for you ignored:

"I believe it is a breach of my Constitutional Rights but the Supreme Court will likely disagree with me, should the case ever be brought before them. I also think it's a disgusting violation of my person and belongings without probable cause."



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

If the throat is cut correctly you take away the air supply which renders unconciousness as well as the blood. I recall reading an article about a hand amputation in Iran for a thief. Apparently the knife was slid between the wristbones, tendons cut and the hand popped off in about a second. Professional throat cutters would do a few **** quickly and even if they only managed one they've caused terror again. Sure they want to kill people but it's also about creating fear.
Anyway I'd still rather be attacked by a Man with an arm rather than a knife !!

We'll have to disagree on random security, if it's done right it's more cost effective than searching everybody or having no searches when under threat.

As for photographic security am I right in saying that 7 of the 911 hijackers were known ? Couldn't that have given a chance of stopping at least part of the tragedy ?

Drug ( rather than bomb ) mules are now being " sniffed " by machines at the airport of departure along with the other passengers but some still get through and are stopped by " random security " but others still make it to the UK. More are caught here but no-one knows exactly how many are successful You can't rely solely on technology, experience counts for a lot and the TSA will get that in time.

Had to go through those sniffing machines at the CN Tower in Toronto in July, you have to stand in there for several seconds while you're " sampled ", they also take photographs. Man was I worried about my breath


Spiff, I think that given time security will find its own level but first it needs the experience which means doing things wrong as well as right. Random searches will continue but not on the scale they are now and I expect the US Government is looking at all ways of protecting the public including photography.

People may not like it and may consider it a breach of their rights but it's there to stay in some form or other.

I belive that here in the UK we have one of the highest densities of CCTV in the World. Moves some crime into other areas, helps catch some criminals especially violent drunks and the ones that are definitely up to no good wear caps or hoods so they can't be recognised.

Long story but I was attacked by a bunch of drunk kids this year, they were too young to punch out and they weren't strong enough to even knock me over. Nevertheless I had cuts, bruises and a broken tooth but reckoned it had all been captured on CCTV. The cameras weren't working !!! Technology failed but I still want it there for the next poor bloke these gits go for.On the other hand I know several people who'd have no qualms about slapping a few 15 year olds around


Nigel

I fail to see any descrepancy between your stated position and my summary of your position.

[This message has been edited by LarryJ (edited 12-11-2002).]