Airlines join forces in new website
May 8, 2001 | 10:01 am
#61
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 359
Originally posted by Tango:
Is not the pot calling the kettle black?
There is no online service (except Southwest) that can book Southwest. Orbitz is no different.
By claiming Southwest is worried that Orbitz will show that Southwest is not the lowest price airline is pure fantasy and doing a great diservice to Southwest. Southwest is one of the main reasons why we have lower airfares. If you think otherwise I would be glad to show you the light.
Is not the pot calling the kettle black?
There is no online service (except Southwest) that can book Southwest. Orbitz is no different.
By claiming Southwest is worried that Orbitz will show that Southwest is not the lowest price airline is pure fantasy and doing a great diservice to Southwest. Southwest is one of the main reasons why we have lower airfares. If you think otherwise I would be glad to show you the light.
Now:
"According to the lawsuit, this website is currently using proprietary information with respect to Southwest's fares and schedules without Southwest's permission. Worse, Orbitz has refused to eliminate false and
misleading information from its website concerning Southwest's schedules, fares and routes, according to the lawsuit.
"It is with great regret that Southwest must take the extraordinary step of legal action," said Jim Parker, Southwest's vice president and general counsel and future vice chairman and CEO, "but we were not able to convince Orbitz to cease and desist from its misleading, untrue, and harmful representations with respect to Southwest's service, schedules, and fares.
But, besides using the Southwest logo, how is using publicly available info misleading? This will probably just result in the same sort of "de-listing" of Southwest that Travelocity and others have had to do...
May 8, 2001 | 10:17 am
#62
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,024
The key issue here is missleading route and fare information. If (as Southwest claims) that Orbitz shows bogus flights and fare information, this needs to be halted.
The example given is between Palm Beach and Orlando Florida. Orbitz shows the only way you can fly between these two cities on Southwest is by way of Tampa or Ft Lauderdale when in reality Southwest offers 3 non-stop flights per day.
If you look at other misrepresentations and bogus and invalid fare and schedule information, Southwest has every right to sue Orbitz.
United would do the same thing if Orbitz showed the only way to fly on United between SFO and ORD was through DEN.
If this is any indication of the superior software that Orbitz uses, all I need to say is no thank you.
The example given is between Palm Beach and Orlando Florida. Orbitz shows the only way you can fly between these two cities on Southwest is by way of Tampa or Ft Lauderdale when in reality Southwest offers 3 non-stop flights per day.
If you look at other misrepresentations and bogus and invalid fare and schedule information, Southwest has every right to sue Orbitz.
United would do the same thing if Orbitz showed the only way to fly on United between SFO and ORD was through DEN.
If this is any indication of the superior software that Orbitz uses, all I need to say is no thank you.
May 9, 2001 | 10:55 am
#63
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
"If providing consumers with flights that are not scheduled is an example of Orbitz' superior technology, then consumers are in for the ride of their lives," said Antonella Pianalto, Executive Director of ITSA. Orbitz posts Southwest's published schedule and fares, but Southwest blocks it from selling the airline's tickets or displaying Southwest's online fares.
http://38.144.115.20/travel/index.asp?news=15544
http://38.144.115.20/travel/index.asp?news=15544
May 9, 2001 | 12:02 pm
#64
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 359
Originally posted by Tango:
The key issue here is missleading route and fare information. If (as Southwest claims) that Orbitz shows bogus flights and fare information, this needs to be halted.
The example given is between Palm Beach and Orlando Florida. Orbitz shows the only way you can fly between these two cities on Southwest is by way of Tampa or Ft Lauderdale when in reality Southwest offers 3 non-stop flights per day.
If you look at other misrepresentations and bogus and invalid fare and schedule information, Southwest has every right to sue Orbitz.
United would do the same thing if Orbitz showed the only way to fly on United between SFO and ORD was through DEN.
If this is any indication of the superior software that Orbitz uses, all I need to say is no thank you.
The key issue here is missleading route and fare information. If (as Southwest claims) that Orbitz shows bogus flights and fare information, this needs to be halted.
The example given is between Palm Beach and Orlando Florida. Orbitz shows the only way you can fly between these two cities on Southwest is by way of Tampa or Ft Lauderdale when in reality Southwest offers 3 non-stop flights per day.
If you look at other misrepresentations and bogus and invalid fare and schedule information, Southwest has every right to sue Orbitz.
United would do the same thing if Orbitz showed the only way to fly on United between SFO and ORD was through DEN.
If this is any indication of the superior software that Orbitz uses, all I need to say is no thank you.
"Orbitz posts Southwest's published schedule and fares, but Southwest blocks it from selling the airline's tickets or displaying Southwest's online fares."
Orbitz is posting what is given to them! That's the key issue.
May 9, 2001 | 12:15 pm
#65
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 48
Isn't the real issue here the fact that Southwest is suing Orbitz because they are publishing public information - information that SWA provided ATPCo. Sure there are other cheaper fares that SWA keeps close the vest but that has nothing to do with publicly available information.
May 9, 2001 | 12:49 pm
#66
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,024
Let me try to explain how the system works and why Southwest is upset with Orbitz.
Most airlines have contracts with the CRS systems to show fare/schedule information and to allow bookings to be made. The CRS systems charge the airlines a fee for each segement reserved/booked on their systems. Up until recently there was no away around the CRS systems/fee's and still maintain a large exposure to travel agents and the flying public. As the CRS systems continued to raise their booking fees, airlines started to try to find ways to go around the CRS systems. That is one of the main pushes to get people to book on the airlines own web sites--becuase they would save major dollars on booking fees. Orbitz was funded by the airlines in another attempt to get around these fees as Orbitz promises to charge much less per booking in exchange for the airlines provided orbitz with their lowest fares offered on their own internet sites.
Orbitz pulls in information from the CRS systems and what the airlines feed it and puts it through their software to provide customers with flight choices.
Southwest, in not wanting to pay the high CRS fee's has never fully participated in the CRS systems. They have chosen only limited participation with Sabre where Sabre shows scheduled flights and fares but not avalability. When you pull up a Southwest flight on Sabre, you do not get fare/seat class inventory. The only way for a travel agent to book a seat on Southwest is to first call Southwest and reserve the seat you want and then with the confirmation number, go back into the crs system and issue the ticket/reservation. Travelocity tried to sell Southwest for a period but ran into to many problems with ticketed passengers not holding secured reservations. Southwest pulled the plug on this several months ago.
Most travel agents do not like to sell Southwest becuase of the extra work it takes to reserve and issue a ticket. Becuase of this, Southwest has had to rely on its own 800 lines and web site to sell their seats. Southwest sells over 25% of all seats through their own web site--something the other airlines are green with envy.
It looks like Orbitz is not showing accurate flight schedules or fares for southwest on their site--something Southwest wants Orbitz to stop doing becuase it hurts their image. If (as Southwest states) that Orbitz shows no non-stop flights between Palm Beach and Orlando (when Sabre does show 3 daily non-stop flights) then the Orbitz system is not up to speed. Southwest wants Orbitz to stop becuase it is giving out bogus information.
As I stated in my previous post, any other airline would have the same problem if Orbitz showed bogus information on their system.
Anyone who thinks that Southwest is worried about not being seen as the low fare airline (because orbitz would show cheaper flights on other airlines) clearly does not understand what the Southwest effect is. If you know anything about the industry, you would not be making these statements!
Most airlines have contracts with the CRS systems to show fare/schedule information and to allow bookings to be made. The CRS systems charge the airlines a fee for each segement reserved/booked on their systems. Up until recently there was no away around the CRS systems/fee's and still maintain a large exposure to travel agents and the flying public. As the CRS systems continued to raise their booking fees, airlines started to try to find ways to go around the CRS systems. That is one of the main pushes to get people to book on the airlines own web sites--becuase they would save major dollars on booking fees. Orbitz was funded by the airlines in another attempt to get around these fees as Orbitz promises to charge much less per booking in exchange for the airlines provided orbitz with their lowest fares offered on their own internet sites.
Orbitz pulls in information from the CRS systems and what the airlines feed it and puts it through their software to provide customers with flight choices.
Southwest, in not wanting to pay the high CRS fee's has never fully participated in the CRS systems. They have chosen only limited participation with Sabre where Sabre shows scheduled flights and fares but not avalability. When you pull up a Southwest flight on Sabre, you do not get fare/seat class inventory. The only way for a travel agent to book a seat on Southwest is to first call Southwest and reserve the seat you want and then with the confirmation number, go back into the crs system and issue the ticket/reservation. Travelocity tried to sell Southwest for a period but ran into to many problems with ticketed passengers not holding secured reservations. Southwest pulled the plug on this several months ago.
Most travel agents do not like to sell Southwest becuase of the extra work it takes to reserve and issue a ticket. Becuase of this, Southwest has had to rely on its own 800 lines and web site to sell their seats. Southwest sells over 25% of all seats through their own web site--something the other airlines are green with envy.
It looks like Orbitz is not showing accurate flight schedules or fares for southwest on their site--something Southwest wants Orbitz to stop doing becuase it hurts their image. If (as Southwest states) that Orbitz shows no non-stop flights between Palm Beach and Orlando (when Sabre does show 3 daily non-stop flights) then the Orbitz system is not up to speed. Southwest wants Orbitz to stop becuase it is giving out bogus information.
As I stated in my previous post, any other airline would have the same problem if Orbitz showed bogus information on their system.
Anyone who thinks that Southwest is worried about not being seen as the low fare airline (because orbitz would show cheaper flights on other airlines) clearly does not understand what the Southwest effect is. If you know anything about the industry, you would not be making these statements!
May 11, 2001 | 6:03 am
#68
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Southwest's Orbitz Fight Could Mean A Win For Travelers
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/d...109319,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/d...109319,00.html
May 14, 2001 | 10:56 am
#69
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Posts: 46,817
Sabre Holdings Corporation (NYSE: TSG - news), the leading provider of technology, distribution and marketing services for the travel industry, snagged its eighth consecutive World Travel Award for the World's Leading Computer Reservation System (CRS) and Global Distribution System (GDS). Travelocity.com (Nasdaq: TVLY - news), in which Sabre maintains an approximate 70% ownership interest, took first place as the World's Leading Travel Internet Site.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010514/dam057.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010514/dam057.html
May 23, 2001 | 7:13 am
#70
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Join Date: May 1999
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25 Consumer Groups Ask Justice to Modify Orbitz Launch Vehicle
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010522/dctu026_2.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010522/dctu026_2.html
May 24, 2001 | 2:05 pm
#71
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Become an Orbitz member, with access to the planet's best travel site!
Register before June 3 for a chance to win two round trip tickets to anywhere in the United States (including Hawaii and Alaska), Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean!
https://launch2.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewNewMemberReg
www.orbitz.com
-----
UPDATE:
"Due to the overwhelming response to Orbitz, we cannot provide you access to the site at this time. You will be notified by e-mail as soon as you can enter Orbitz."
----
Great start!
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 05-24-2001).]
Register before June 3 for a chance to win two round trip tickets to anywhere in the United States (including Hawaii and Alaska), Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean!
https://launch2.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewNewMemberReg
www.orbitz.com
-----
UPDATE:
"Due to the overwhelming response to Orbitz, we cannot provide you access to the site at this time. You will be notified by e-mail as soon as you can enter Orbitz."
----
Great start!
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 05-24-2001).]
May 26, 2001 | 10:11 am
#72
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
...Orbitz, the new online travel agency that is owned by the country's five largest airlines, will officially open its virtual front door for business. Then the world will finally begin to find out whether Orbitz is the Standard Oil of online travel, as its critics have charged, or just another Web site that sells airplane tickets.
In the meantime, the new competition should prove to be a bonanza for travelers. "Price wars are always great for consumers, and new entrants always start price wars," said Albert A. Foer, president of the American Antitrust Institute, a nonprofit organization in Washington that has raised objections to Orbitz. "But the question is: How long will this go on?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/travel/27REP.html
In the meantime, the new competition should prove to be a bonanza for travelers. "Price wars are always great for consumers, and new entrants always start price wars," said Albert A. Foer, president of the American Antitrust Institute, a nonprofit organization in Washington that has raised objections to Orbitz. "But the question is: How long will this go on?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/travel/27REP.html
May 27, 2001 | 3:34 am
#73
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Oz via Canada
Programs: QF WP, SPG Plat again and non elite member of many
Posts: 86
From the Orbitz email sent after "successful" registration....
At Orbitz, we're committed to supplying you with the travel tools you need to make informed travel decisions. Take a look at the FAQs, page "Help" prompts, and our unique Travel Terms Glossary. If we don't answer all your questions, let us know in an email to [email protected]. We'll respond to you within four (4) hours.
Send your comments and suggestions as we strive to enhance Orbitz to serve you better.
Orbitz Cares
At Orbitz, we're committed to supplying you with the travel tools you need to make informed travel decisions. Take a look at the FAQs, page "Help" prompts, and our unique Travel Terms Glossary. If we don't answer all your questions, let us know in an email to [email protected]. We'll respond to you within four (4) hours.
Send your comments and suggestions as we strive to enhance Orbitz to serve you better.
Orbitz Cares
May 29, 2001 | 8:10 am
#74
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
"The five airlines who financed this couldn't possibly agree on who would benefit from bias, so there has to be no bias," said Jeffrey G. Katz, Orbitz's chief executive.
Those interested in drawing their own conclusions can check out the preview version of Orbitz at www.orbitz.com.
Over the past year, the competing online travel agencies have engaged in a fierce lobbying campaign to try to get the federal government to crack down on Orbitz. Two dozen state attorneys general, several members of Congress and some rival airlines have written the government expressing their concerns.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20010526/tc/corresponde nt_s_report_new_airline-owned_site_to_go_online_in_june_1.html
AND:
Last weekend's Orbitz glitch followed a bumpy takeoff for the controversial airlines-owned site. Though cleared by the Department of Transportation, it still faces scrutiny from regulators about what rivals claim is unfair access to low airfares charges Orbitz denies. And its official June 4 launch was greeted by a host of snafus, from overwhelmed call centers to delayed response times.
The company's offer to honor the misprint, which Jouzaitis said was extended to another customer who'd tried to book the $125 cruise while it was still promoted online, is a smart move, says analyst Krista Pappas with Gomez.com, which rates Web retailers.
For an online agency whose mantra is "customer care," Orbitz "would have had hell to pay" if they'd reneged, says Pappas.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/t...-misprints.htm
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 06-14-2001).]
Those interested in drawing their own conclusions can check out the preview version of Orbitz at www.orbitz.com.
Over the past year, the competing online travel agencies have engaged in a fierce lobbying campaign to try to get the federal government to crack down on Orbitz. Two dozen state attorneys general, several members of Congress and some rival airlines have written the government expressing their concerns.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20010526/tc/corresponde nt_s_report_new_airline-owned_site_to_go_online_in_june_1.html
AND:
Last weekend's Orbitz glitch followed a bumpy takeoff for the controversial airlines-owned site. Though cleared by the Department of Transportation, it still faces scrutiny from regulators about what rivals claim is unfair access to low airfares charges Orbitz denies. And its official June 4 launch was greeted by a host of snafus, from overwhelmed call centers to delayed response times.
The company's offer to honor the misprint, which Jouzaitis said was extended to another customer who'd tried to book the $125 cruise while it was still promoted online, is a smart move, says analyst Krista Pappas with Gomez.com, which rates Web retailers.
For an online agency whose mantra is "customer care," Orbitz "would have had hell to pay" if they'd reneged, says Pappas.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/t...-misprints.htm
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 06-14-2001).]
May 29, 2001 | 12:10 pm
#75
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 359
Originally posted by doc:
["Due to the overwhelming response to Orbitz, we cannot provide you access to the site at this time. You will be notified by e-mail as soon as you can enter Orbitz."
----
Great start!
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 05-24-2001).][/B]
["Due to the overwhelming response to Orbitz, we cannot provide you access to the site at this time. You will be notified by e-mail as soon as you can enter Orbitz."
----
Great start!
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 05-24-2001).][/B]
Orbitz's display is o much simpler to deal with than Travelocity where I get frustrated trying to find a fare during a certain time or date and waste 15 minutes to find it is unavailable!
All that traffic means people are interested, I would surmise.