Besides the hassle of screens and personal searches, the risk of theft at security clearance is substantial. Last week, I went through security (do not remember where) and after my computer passed through the X-ray, I collected it from the plastic box. While I was in the process of putting it back in my bag, a smaller plastic box came through containing several items belonging to another passenger, including a watch. The owner had been delayed briefly for some reason, and the TSA employee who normally keeps an eye on things had his back to me. It would have been simple for me to pick up the watch, drop it in my bag and walk away. I wonder how often this happens in the chaos generated by the screening process.

JMHO - I don't think that the inconsistent level of airport security we have in the US has any bearing one way or another on whether there will be another terrorist attack involving an airliner.

We need to differentiate between whether we think the current TSA procedures are addressing their goal, whether the staff implementing the procedures are doing a professional accurate job in implementing those procedures, and if they are simultaneously excellent customer service.

Do the procedures make sense: I'm still not sure. The best management approaches know how to mix deterministic, stochastic, and intuitive methods. I don't think TSA is doing that, but how can I be sure?

Are they executing the specified procedures accurately: Better than the previous folks, still not consistent enough.

Is the level of customer service better: So far, I've been surprisingly pleased by their customer service level. Politeness and explaining things makes a big difference.

Let me describe 4 out 5 of my last encounters

1. While waiting for pre-boards at Tampa TSA randomly selected the first Passenger - a woman who was at least 90, they were considerate enough to untie and re-tie her orthopedic shoes, there was considerable discussion about her ability to stand on one leg, - All of the passengers were left waiting for this ridiculous procedure to finish.

2. At IAH C made the mistake of leaving my wallet and belt buckle on - (TSA has the sensitivity of the metal detectors set to react to the fillings in your teeth), it was the friendliest pat down I have ever experienced, never been touched there by a male without an MD after his name.

BTW weather was bad so I decided to check my bag rather than haul it all over the airport, got slected for special Xray before check in, and got randomly selected at the gate - Should have bought a lottery ticket that day 3 for 3 on searches.

3. Back at Tampa - this time I take everything off (metal that is), even send my shoes through the machine to avoid the tacks in the heels from setting off the metal detector, They decide to swab my laptop - TSA personnel makes a desparaging comment about a lack of Ritalin for the screamimg 4 year old who just won't cooperate for the wanding after being separated from her mother - I made the comment that they were not helping the situation by selecting her. Local Tampa PD on duty gets involved to try to calm the sutuation using logic.

4. Domestic flight to LAX out of D at IAH, leave my bag in a locker at the President's club and decide to go out for a smoke. No less than 30 people working security at Terminal D - At the Time only Mexicana had any Ticket gates open, (yes you do have to clear security after clearing customs and making your connecting flight) however with that many people and no passengers they are looking for things to do.

The head count seems to be growing without any consideration for cost or reasonable expectations. As a weekly traveler it ads no comfort to watch senior citizens and children be harrased and treated rudely.

The metal detectors and X Rays are not infalable however certain profiled searches at the gate as a secondary check will keep them honest. - Certain People when they come up randomly just do not meet the profile



[This message has been edited by FC_Dave (edited 10-27-2002).]

FC Dave, they do need to search OAPS and children, albeit sensitively and appropriately. If it became known that OAPS and children are never searched, then anyone who wants to put something "unorthodox" on a plane only needs to put it with an OAP or child (even if unwittingly...)

Hmm...in all my flights, I've never noticed a TSA gate agent every select anyone. It's not their job to select at the gate. The Pre-selected ticket holders are sent over and the gate agent sends over people in a continuous, not random fashion. Prior to TSA at the airports I fly, the private security personal would randomly get people. But now, it's the airline gate agents who send people over.

I generally don't complain about good security. First it's no security, then we complain about having security. Re-read this forum and people complain about everything from the lack of, to too much. What gives? For every 1 person that is unhappy with it, there are a lot who are happy with. Just ask a TSA rep how many times a day someone actually says they are doing a good job. It does happen. It appears that in some peoples mind the TSA can't do anything right. I mean come on, being thorough in a search? Why in the world would we want that. (sarcasm)

The Ritalin comment was uncalled for, not the search. If you don't search everybody, you have a security gap. It doesn't take a scholar to realize what the gaps in security are. "Oh, they don't search the old people" or "They don't search the people with children". Then terrorists target those people or become those type of people themselves.

The TSA isn't perfect, but its far better than what we had before. Remember why we actually have to refer to everything as "Since 9-11'.

JetTroop, you are completely right, 100%.

Howdy,

1. The TSA are not doing a better job then prior groups did, even if their pay went up. At STL and ORD - many of the same people are working for TSA that used to work for Argentbright (or whomever) - the only change is that their pay is higher and they can f**k with the PAX now.

2. The TSA that I have encountered contain people who enjoy abusing their authority and treat all PAX like convicted criminals.

3. I have an absolute right to be treated decently, I choose to conduct business with AA (fly on their plane). The government, in an effort to save my life decides to randomly screen PAX - fine. That does not give them the right to order me around and belittle me in public.

I am safter today - because no PAX today would allow a terrorist to get up. This has nothing to do with the TSA.

The TSA is driving business travelers away from flying.

The TSA is hurting the economy.

The TSA is not making my flights any safer.

Just my two cents.

/flame off

Keep the faith,

Pakse

As to #2, contact your congressional representative or senator, or the district TSA manager, and complain about your treatment. It's a big federal agency and there are doubtless going to be some bad apples.

We can debate hypothetical scenarios, but we should be mindful that hypothetical scenarios are just that - conjecture/speculation about what MAY happen, not debate about facts. Maybe people would get up, maybe not. Maybe there wouldn't be time to stop them from gaining access to the cockpit, and slamming these new, insurmountable doors in our faces. Maybe there would be 12 passengers to 20 hijackers. Maybe they would smuggle chemical gas on board and knock everyone out.

The TSA is an essential component of today's different, more vulnerable air transport environment. There may be weaknesses, but on the whole, it is a better security situation than before, and must remain a strong element in the fight against terrorism.

Care for a napkin to wipe off? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

The TSA is a cancer that is destroying any remaining passengers' incentive to fly. They might be better paid and more polite, but they have stopped no terrorist activity and spent money that could be much better spent elsewhere.



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Why does everyone think the next attack will be on an airplane? The terrorists are going to attack somewhere else....there are so many ripe targets that don't include an airplane. These fellows are smart. They KNOW they can no longer hijack an airplane. We are just reacting in a moronic way.

Sure the next attack or any future attacks wont be by airplane. Of course. You're absolutely right. And I'm sure you're consulting with the terrorists to confirm this right?

Of course I'm only joking but seriously, while the next attack may or may not be on an airline can we afford to take that risk and NOT have security? If we didn't increase security, the next attack might be a plane. And if we don't have another airborne attack, it's because of the measures we have in place. Remove those measures and we're wide open.

As for being sure that no other airline passengers would let a terrorist attack happen again, you're plum crazy. Nothing is 100 percent, especially a 100 or so scared people. And even if they did try to stop the attack, would they be successful? Again, nothing is 100 percent so we don't know what would happen either way. But if you think every attack would be unsuccesful, I beg to differ. Keep thinking that's the only type security really nessasary and you'll be a goner in no time. Hell, we don't need the TSA, we just need passengers who can overtake terrorists. What a crock.

What? In what way are they destroying any remaining passengers' incentive to fly?

You're an alarmist. You honestly think Mr. Joe Blow and his wife sit at home and go, "****, we could be in Orlando right but with that TSA there...no way, we aint traveling". Your kidding yourself. The only people who might consider the TSA in their way and causing them to make other arrangements are business travelers who travel often enough that they don't want to mess with security.

And how do you know that they haven't stopped any terrorists? Have you asked any terrorists lately? It's called a deterrent.

I haven't noticed any comments on how they could improve or where our tax dollars could be better spent. Instead of criticizing the government for no other reason than they are the government, it must be crap, bs...let's hear where you think the dollars would be better spent at.

Let's get back to the purpose of the thread -TSA good/bad...

At PSP recently had a TSA person NOT let me through detector until AFTER my personal stuff was through. Got really p***ed off. A supr was watching - asked to speak to me after I cleared (and of course was selected for body search which didn't even set the d***ed thing off). Anyway, great discussion with not 1, but 2 supr who actually apologized. One of them immeidately went to talk with this person and told her to do it right...so, just like the rest of us...they are still learning. Was I happy, h**l no, but it was taken care of in a very professional way. BTW - the supr was at the gate watching over his staff - he just gave me a big http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif and said - have a great flight!

You are confusing "stop stupid 'security'" with "stop all security". No one is advocating getting rid of security. We just want the stupidity to stop.



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry