Well, if the grandparent were incapacitated, then I truly doubt that the parents would have left the child with her!

But, hey, with these folks and their preparedness, you never know.

Frankly, Doc 2 Be, I don't understand why you're jumping to the conclusion that the family is comprised of a bunch of cheats trying to use some "trick" to buck the system. First of all, the allegation that it's a common scam that Filipino ticket agents have seen too much of is ridiculous, to say the least. First of all, to be able to take advantage of the "scam," you need to have a kid whose 2nd birthday is in between the outbound and return flight -- I doubt that's a common characteristic of Filipino grifters.

Second, why should the fact that they're gone for 6 months make any difference? Maybe a relative was seriously ill. Who knows? It doesn't prove that they're fabulously wealthy. I'm not wealthy (I'm also a Doc 2 Be), but I could probably take 6 months off and live off money I already have. But even if I had some money, I would certainly refuse to pay for a full-fare one-way ticket when extorted with threats of separation from my child (assuming I had one).

My point is that yes, the parents were either 1.) unaware that the 2 yr. age limit was a hard and fast rule, 2.) irresponsible, or 3.) intentionally trying to save some money by bucking the system. There's no reason to believe 3 is the most likely.

Congrats on being a Doc 2 Be, as well.

I do not know if it is a common scam, that is why I leave it to the discretion of the tix agents there, as I am sure they can discern the situation better than you or I could have done so, as we do not hold that position. I am not saying that they were trying to cheat, only that unless proven to the contrary, I will assume the worst. Others can certainly disagree, and have!!, but I wish I could only take 6 mos off and do whatever I would like.

If the gate agents were unfeeling, then shame on them, but, I would still like to have further info.

Posted by DOC 2 BE
Have you not heard of innocent until proven guilty? Oops, I forgot, they were not in the United States when this happened.

For the record, all lap children (under two years) are required to pay 10% of the adult fare--there is not one airline that does not impose this fee. Children between the ages of 2 and 12 get anywhere from a 25% to 50% discount off the adult fare.

My Brother in Law works very hard for 6 months to a year and then takes roughly 6 months off. I hope you do not prejudge him as he has done very well for himself.

Do not assume that just becuase someone is spending 6 months overseas is on vacation. There are many reasons for trips of this length to take place.

Just a note, if they went there to care for a seriously ill relative, it's quite possible that originally they were scheduled to leave before she was 2, and then they stayed longer.

Innocent until proven guilty is a criminal law concept and not a moral judjgment. IF I were on a jury, then that concept would be operative. However, that is not the case and I am entitled, just as you are, to your judgments.

Second, if your brother in law does very well for himself, then he would have no need of crying poverty and not being able to take his kid home.

Thus, your 2 points are not valid for this situation. As I have said, I would like more information, but until such time, my judgment of the situation is as valid as anyonelse's view, and your attempts at prostelytyinzing will be to no avail. Perhaps it is because I live near a major metro area or the fact that I am an attorney, allows me to take a more critical look at certain situations, than one who does not have this background?

Nevertheless, I am as understanding as the next person, and that is why I would like more info. As I have noted, if the people went home to take care of someone who was ill or something to that effect, and if they were truly poverty stricken, then NW was in the wrong. However, with the scant info provided, and the fact that someone was away for 6 mos and then claims poverty, I will stick to my guns and take a very critical view of this until such further info comes to light.

As I have noted, there are too many people now claiming airline culpability for one thing or another -- flying home with a dead passenger, etc. -- that is ridiculous. IMHO, it just casts doubt on the legitimate claims that others may have.

Until such time as more info comes to light, I view this as another "dead passenger" story. Mind you, NW DID offer to provide a RT tix but that was not respnded to by the people in question.

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 05-16-2001).]

DOC 2 Be, you've compelled me to jump in from the sidelines with this last line of reasoning. My points:

1) it is possible to take 6 months off and not be weathly
2) it is not very expensive (free, even) to live with family in the Philippenes
3) however, taking 6 months off, especially unexpectedly, may well constrain one's finances
4) since you are an attorney, I'm especially shocked by the haste of your judgement. One (weak) attack does not invalidate an argument, especially in a case where so many variables are unknown.

Posted by DOC 2 BE


Since when is the Seattle area not a major metro area? Does this mean people who live in Walla Walla or other small towns do not measue up to your thinking ability?
Are attorney's the only people who have critical thinking skills?

Does the word compassion mean anything to you?


The passengers enterd a contract with Northwest when they bought the tickets. They executed the contract when they checked in to go overseas. If the airline had a problem with the type of ticket being used for the child, they waited until the return leg to raise it.

The amount of bad publicity is costing Northwest much more than the revenue they earned by trying to charge the child more money.

Moondog --

All your arguments are quite correct, and I will admit that my "haste" was due to the "CO dead passenger" incident wherein certain passengers wanted something for nothing. I was getting ahead of myself on this story, and I am glad that you have pointed this out to me. Mea culpa!

With respect to Tango,

Although Seattle may be a major metro area, it is nothing like, and hopefully will never be like the NYC metro area (where I reside), where it can be dog eat dog, and many have an "angle."

That being said, your erroneous belief that this is another major PR fiasco, proves my point, as the majority of people on this thread have, at the very least, taken a wait and see attitude, rather than your knee-jerk reflexive attack on NW (and me)that NW is in the wrong and that the passengers are in the right. This very attitude has brought us the likes of those goldiggers from the CO dead passenger story that I was reacting to, and I now see that I was getting ahead of myself. If anything, you are as guilty of prejudging this situation without adequate information, as I was; however, at least in each of my threads, above, I have had the good sense to add the refrain that I would still like additional information before I came to a final decision. Not so, you.

For you, on the other hand, have already come to such a decision, and you have wholeheartedly voiced your assumption that NW is in the wrong, w/o adequate information.
I wonder why you feel compelled to do this and why this is? Is it, perhaps, something in your past that has instigated this reaction of yours?

Further, your continued attacks on my character, as well as your feeble attempt to twist my words, clearly evidence your prejudice and your inability to think dispassionately about this matter.

My mistake was to attempt to counteract your view, and by so doing, I wound up in a vortex of my own making, as you still seem to be content to reside within.

I am grateful to Moondog for pointing this out, and for the moment, then, I will reserve judgment, but will take a skeptical view of this matter until further information develops.

I will not even ask that you do likewise, as it appears that you are emotionally incapable of doing so as you have contined to attack me. Well, c'est la vie.

If you are right that this is costing NW big time in adverse publicity, then there should be a slew of news articles following this up.

However, thus far, I have seen none.

Perhaps you are wrong in your beliefs, and a reevaluation will prove to be necessary. I just hope that it will not prove too painful for you.

DOC 2 BE:

Who is attacking whose Character?


Your comments clearly show you have some personal issues that you need to address.

I never inteneded to attack you as a person--only to react to certain statments you made that were offensive. If you feel that I attacked your character then I apologize for it.

Northwest has a proven track record of giving people the shaft. Their corporate culture is no better. If you call this prejudice, so be it.

Wow! What a mess I seem to have started here! How did we get to a discussion of Seattle as a major city???

Unfortunately, there are SO many people out there who can pass judgment and become instant experts on people behavior and motivations after reading an article and extrapolating from their limited life experience. Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!