Dress code
 

Rather than throw the discussion off-topic in "An Onboard Etiquette Question", I thought I would start a new topic about dress codes (the guy in the bulkhead seat who declined a move was wearing a T-shirt and no shoes).

I fly coach, and the most casual I dress is pants, shoes (not sneakers), and a long-sleeve button down shirt. My wife dresses similarly, and my little boys (except the baby) wear the same kind of outfit I do (they are comfortable clothes, so they don't mind).

Dressing decently isn't that DIFFICULT! I think that flying would be more civilized if airlines had a dress code, certainly in First Class.

The situation seems to be getting worse -- my AA non-revving relatives say that the non-rev dress code is not being enforced, even in First.

I just don't understand why someone wearing a T-shirt should be in First Class. I've seen people (in coach) wearing shorts and flip-flops, as if they were at the beach! Help!

People dress casually (not to say sloppily) for everything these days. I doubt you'd have much luck with a campaign to get pax to dress better, particularly when one sees people attending weddings and funerals wearing shorts and t-shirts. I admit have have yet to see anyone at a funeral barefoot, though.

I would think that if I paid for a first-class ticket (or any other ticket for that matter), I would be able to dress as I want. If a t-shirt and shorts is what I feel like wearing, then so be it.

I admire your dressing-up for travel. I try to do the same.

But I can see the other person's point of view as well.

I have seen people, travelling or in the office or at a restaurant or otherwise, I myself consider dressed inappropriately, but I don't find them offensive per se. At least not until their private bits are starting to show.

Why do you take this issue much to heart?

I am sorry but I do not understand your sentiment here - If I am sitting in First or Business Class, and have either paid for the ticket myself (or my employer has). I should be able to wear whatever I want.

A 16 hour journey is not the time and place for a suit, and given the high chances of food/drink spillage over that time (either my own fault or someone else's), neither is anything smart. Baggy combat pants, loose shoes, old polo or t shirt do the job fine for me. I do make sure there are no holes in my socks now though.

I think we act the way we dress, on the job, traveling or anywhere else. People seem to act more civilized when they are dressed in some type of decent manner. That said if someone is paying for their own way it is not up to me to judge or control how they dress. As for the non revving situation. Recently my son was flying home from his grandmother's funeral. First Class out of Chicago. He had on a nice pair of slacks, Timberland shoes and a Tommy Hillfiger polo shirt (not tucked in) ORD gate agent handed him his boarding pass with the comment, "tuck in that shirt, you look like a slob". So I think they are still enforcing employee dress class. At one time employees had to dress up to not stand out from the paying passengers, now we follow the dress code and really stick out. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I definitely agree with GK. Especially when it comes to long-haul flights. But in any case - why do you need a dress code. What you would sometimes need more is a "wash code". That is when I sit next to someone who smells as it happened on a flight from London to Cincinnati. But clothing is not an issue!!

I don't think this has anything to do with someone's right to do anything.

It has to do if someone should do something.

It's about having consideration of the total social environment surrounding them, and what is generally expected in that particular setting.

How much was paid, IMHO, has absoulutly no bearing on if that gives someone additional rights to break the expectation of what is generally exceptable in that setting.

The attitude that "I can do whatever I want just because I paid lots of money" (or used an upgrade) doesn't sit well with me personally. That's nothing more than saying that you think you are purchasing some sort of special "waiver" of acceptable conduct, IMHO.

It's all about taking into account the considerations of others, and how your actions effect the experience of others. IMHO. If you go to a five-star restaurant where everyone is dressed rather nice, and someone comes in dressed in swimming trunks and flip flops just because there is no rule against it...it can ruin the experience of "elegance" that others have come for.

I suggest, don't be one of those people that "do whatever the hell they want to" in social settings. Have consideration of how your actions will effect others experience. Be nice. Fly right. And use your own good judgment as to what is "right" to wear.

There's a reason the airline's have a strict dress code for their employees flying in First Class.

IMHO.


[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-17-2000).]

PremEx,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with you completely!

/Pete

And how does someone dressed in a t-shirt and shorts in an airplane affect you?

If you find that offensive, I would hate to see what else completes your list.

As someone who flies mostly economy, I would hardly call flying a social occasion.

No, we don't need a dress code. But at the same time, no matter how much we pay for our tickets, and no matter how tired we are, the world does not begin and end with what "I am entitled to." I wouldn't bring a tuna sandwich on the plane because I am hungry. That would be unfair to others (not because I get to eat, but because the sandwich smells so much). When we share space with others, we should at least respect, and perhaps even set an example for, that person.

Now, this isn't to say that we should dress up. Jeans, even a clean t-shirt seem appropriate. But the sandals with no socks and the tank tops ... Well, my two cents.

[This message has been edited by zrs70 (edited 08-17-2000).]

Additional thought -- regardless of the number of dollars shelled out, the purpose of First Class is that it's supposed to be a "nice" place to be on the aircraft. That includes a bigger seat, a higher F/A to passenger ratio, higher quality food, etc. Dressing well makes First Class really feel like it's a nicer place to be on the aircraft (just my opinion, of course).

Look at it this way -- why go to a five star restaurant, when you can get basically the same food at a tenth the cost by going to a fast food restaurant? If a five star restaurant seated people in tank tops and flip-flops, it would't "feel" like five stars.

Usually there are health code considerations, such as wearing shoes, a shirt, etc, that should be enforced (remember the old "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" sign when entering places that serve food) but it is hard to say what the correct form of the clothes should be (e.g., coat and tie). In some cultures people use perfume to mask odors, other shower and apply deodorant, some do nothing at all (I think based on personal olfactory encounters) - which is right depends on your point of view.

I always try to dress nice on the plane, especially if I am in F/B because you never know who you might meet (the future ex-spouse, not that I have any experience in this at all), but I do love my TIN-TIN tee shirts too http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by beetee (edited 08-17-2000).]

The flip side: if everyone in economy got dressed up to fly, would it then all of a sudden 'feel' glamourous?

I think not. It would feel creased and spilt-on and farcical.

There is a big difference between flip-flops and wingtips, cut-off jean shorts and ironed slacks, two-sizes-too-large tank top and coat/tie. That's what I'm getting at (something like the no shoes, no shirt, no service, but a tad better, just for F class).

This has actually come up before! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

See:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/001629.html

dhalloway writes: Let me see if I can explain my opinion more clearly. It effects my experience and that of others. It's as others have said here about the restaurant analogy. It's the reason Disney requests that there be no flash photography on it's attractions. It effects the experience.

Second, let me say that I think there is a big difference between sloppy and casual wear. I'm mainly talking about sloppy.

Also, I did not state that I am "offended" by someone wearing a T-Shirt, swimming trunks, and having bare feet. Just dissapointed that my experience has been deminished by their lack of consideration of this particular environment, and how their actions might effect others experience.

Also, I would not (and did not) call flying a "social occasion." But it is a "social setting" IMHO. Especially considering the physical proximity of the social participants!

It's not about what I want to wear that I'm talking about. It's the fact that I feel I should use good judgment as to what would be inappropriate in the situation, and my consideration that my conduct may have an effect on whether or not someone else has a pleasant flight.

We may just have a disgreement over how we view things. I know and have many friends and family who just say, "What do I care?" and actually take pleasure out of "shocking" those around them with their dress or other characteristics, and they say as much. That's fine for them, I guess. But I just happen to be one of those guys that, even though I might believe what I'm doing is right and appropriate, would be concerned if others did not. And I may change my actions based on that consideration.

Again, in First Class, the airlines always require their employees flying as passengers in the First cabin, to be dressed appropriatly so as not to deminish the First Class experience for others. That's a good thing, IMHO.



[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-17-2000).]

I wear a tuxedo, black tie, patent leather shows and wingtip shirt only on evening flights.

Otherwise, it is too pretentious.

Yikes, we need to get you to a real five-star restaurant... I've never been to a five-star restaurant where the food was "basically" like any I'd ever had in my life! That's the whole point... the food is phenomenal, and if the food were merely fast-food quality (basically), no one would go... you can't enjoy an elegant atmosphere eating Chicken McNuggets...


------------------
"Welcome to Mister Internet's Neighborhood..."

Mister Internet observes: Now there's certainly something to be said about that too. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif But then again, there's nothing quite as enjoyable as a good hamburger and a glass of Opus One!

Now, how about those crummy First Class passengers that come back and use the Coach restrooms? Somethings got to be done about that! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Warning to JSrombough:

I've got five segments in F on CO on Friday and Saturday of this week. I'll likely be wearing shorts and a t-shirt on all segments. Plan your travels accordingly.

What PremEx said. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I plead for a little decorum, is all. Gotta side with JSrombough on this.

even the TOP fashion designers have gone casual... tee shirts are not the same as they used to be, there are $700.00 designers tee shirts and jeans, guys... like, Prada, Gucci, Iceberg, Versace etc. etc.... would you be offended if either Pamela Lee, Raquel Welch or Jennifer Lopez (trying to hit all age group here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif) wore just a tank top and shorts in her first class seat next to you? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif


[This message has been edited by belle3388 (edited 08-17-2000).]

belle3388 questions: Well..er...umm...I guess there are exceptions to every rule? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I have!!! Although, I actually believe it was cultural, rather than inappropriate attire or any disrespect. As a chauffeur, I have probably "attended" more funerals than most, but will never forget all the bare feet of 1985. Services were at Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills California USA and you should have seen the raised eyebrows.

Well I am afraid I must be condemned to the t-shirt wearing riff-raff. However, I never wear shorts or jeans on an aeroplane (wouldn't want to stick to the seats) and I don't go barefoot. Please, please, please will you reconsider letting me sit in first class with the ticket I have paid for?

But if you were not wearing both pants and shoes, I as gate agent would love to be able to say "I would be happy to refund you the difference between First and coach -- one moment please" (type type type) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

You'd have to be crazy to be barefoot on a plane. Just think what the toilets are like after 7 hours on a transatlantic... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Oh, man. That's a whole other subject. I can't tell you how many times I've seen folks come out of the lo in their bare feet!

Yeech!

... and then put them up on the bulkhead wall. Oy vey! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

As someone whose spouse's usual attire is t-shirts, slacks, and birkenstocks without socks, the idea that you can make judgements about someone based on their clothing raises my hackles. Clothing does not designate "riff raff" behavior does.
I do admit that my husband dresses up to travel (not a suit and tie, but a nice button down, or polo shirt). My children also dress "appropriately" for travel. We've run into parishoners in airports and their first comment is "Deacon Dan's wearing socks." It's not always easy to have a t-shirt spirituality http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I can understand the objection to bare feet but beyond that I think people should be allowed to dress as they see fit as long as they are clean and don't smell. One person's idea of what looks nice might look stupid in someone else's opinion. I certainly don't dress up for air travel as some people here do (I like to think that I am well dressed at all times anyway http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ) and I think those that wear suits with ties (or women in high heels) when they don't have to are just a little insecure, but then again maybe that is the attire that they consider to be "nice" and comfortable. I suggest that the easily offended start to travel in BA 1st class where you will be cocooned from the outside world in your very own little pod.

Now, does one of the resident fashion police above (those who have stated that they feel that there should be a dress code of some kind) want to explain how/if a clean pair of sneakers is objectionable? (Please DON'T assume that that is what I wear as you would be mistaken but I certainly have no objection to those that do)



[This message has been edited by Mvic (edited 08-17-2000).]

Please be specific who you are addressing your question to. Thank You.

As an earlier poster noted, there's a difference between classy and "all limbs covered."

My standard summer travel outfit when I fly the night before a meeting is a short sleeve collared golf shirt, pressed extra-long khahki walking shorts, and walking shoes. Why? Because I need that outfit the next morning(s) to get my exercise in before my meetings, and I'll wear my suit on the flight home. This approach gives me the fewest amount of clothes to pack, reiron, etc.; it's a matter of practicality.

I do not understand why the original author would be dismayed at the fact that I would choose to wear walking shorts instead of long dress slacks on my next trip.

Having said that, I must acknowledge my own pet peeves... Going barefoot in the plane. Taking ones shoes off on an evening flight without having changed one's socks before boarding. Unplanned holes in clothing. Excessive amounts of fragrance. So, I can sort of see the original authors' position. But not quite.

I seem to be the oddball out here, but my number one criteria is safety. If we have to go out the emergency exits, do I want to be in nylons and heels? No way. I've read how manmade fibers can melt into your skin and how bare legs don't do well going down the chute. Some of you are no doubt laughing at me (I guess I do sound paranoid) but you'll see me in F class with cotton slacks (jeans are good too), long sleeved cotton shirts and sensible shoes. Am I nuts?

We all spend enough time in the air to travel comfortably. For me, in the summer, that is shorts and a polo shirt (what would be considered "golf attire"). Perfect example is this weekend -- I am flying NY to PHX -- its 100+ in PHX -- so dont think I am not wearing shorts (BTW, it is in 1st).

Bare feet -- yuck. However, I will admit that I remove my shoes in flight when I have sox on (and only if they dont have any holes -- would not want to embarass mom).

Non-Rev travel -- I dont fly it but I know it is enforced. I saw a Non-Rev person admonished for her lack of a jacket in 1st class. She was told that if she ever did that again, she would be written up and loose her prividgles. The supervisor siad that if there were any coach seats available, she would have downgraded her. (This was on AA from LHR-JFK)

--Jim

When I flew for business in my early 20s, I learned that FAs *definitely* treated passengers differently based on dress -- and that was flying in coach.
A black t-shirt and Levis would get me the bum's rush treatment at the initial greeting and beverage service -- but a suit and sharply pressed white shirt usually got me eye contact, a smile, and far more attentive and respectful service throughout the flight.
Of course, that always trashed the suit for business ... after 4 or 5 hours shoehorned into a DC9, I'd be wilted and the suit would be headed for the dry cleaners.
And that was in the early '80s ... when the planes were kept clean, you stood a half-decent chance of an empty seat next to you, and FAs served hot meals and repeat beverage service.
Today, forget it ... in coach, there's just *nothing* remotely elegant about flying. The plane's likely to be dirty, the `meal' is a pre-fab half-sandwich with Burger King condiments, and a quarter of the pax look & act like cameo characters from COPS.
And, before even boarding I'm likely to be stuck cooling my heels for an hour or two in a sardine-can gate area, further wrecking any formal outfit I'd wear.
So I'll go jeans/polo shirt or even shorts & running shoes. If I'm carrying a suit, it goes in the garment bag and arrives in decent condition.
And if I'm upgraded to Biz or 1st, you can bet I'm not gonna pass that up just because I haven't thrown on a jacket and tie.
Note: This doesn't in any way defend wearing dirty or scrungy clothes, dressing sloppily or slobishly, or behaving anything less than courteously and politely. And at airports, I've seen PLENTY of guys in $1,000 suits act like Brad Pitt on a tantrum day.


Now if ya want a dress code, ya gotta change the conditions:
Give me a widebody with something humane like 36'' and a 2-4-2, seat covers that don't look like shammy rags from a carwash, FAs who aren't so weary that they treat everyone like processed meat ... give me fellow pax who aren't refugees from Wal Mart ... serve me a meal that's actually a cut *above* Orange Julius .... and then we can talk. Meanwhile, if ya want Sergio Armani, stick to Learjets and pray for revival of the Concorde.

If you want to complain about overly casual attire, let's stick to `formal night' on a cruise ...... *that's* an occasion when under-dressing is unforgiveable.

Thread is: "Flight attendants pet peeves":
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/002227.html

Yes tend to agree with most on the thread, the "dressing down" is too apparent these days. 4 racous teenage kids and friends in F using some of Dad's 2 zillion points, flying to Florida, schreeching inanities to each other acorss the aisle for 4 solid hours. Or noveau riche Nasdaq web investors all of 19 dressed like gansta rap stars ordering more double JD's than a mule could drink.

Flying F or C used to be once such a dressed up experience! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I can't imagine seeing Ron Howard in public without a baseball cap.

If I were a revenue First Class passenger on United today, I would too, even though the company dress code considers these "unacceptable."

I don't think a dress code is necessary. Just use common sense and consideration.

And that remark "I don't want refugees from Wal-Mart" What an insulting remark! I shop at Wal-Mart and Target so I guess I"m a refugee too.

I would never go bare feet on ANY flight. If I am in the air an extented period of time (5 hours or more) I will takes shoes off (to prevent swelled legs and feet) I carry those United grey socks and wear them everywhere (and yes they are washed with Tide and dried with Bounce Dryer sheets.) I keep my slip on shoes/boat shoes right nearby in case I need to leave right away.

If I sit next to a woman I keep me shoes ON ANYWAYS because I feel it's not classy to go running around on stocking feet in front of a lady.

I never go barefoot. It's unsanity and who knows what disease you can pick up even on the rugs.

As for dress.

Business: polo shirt and slacks... or suit if meeting is in short time from plane's arrival.
Pleasure: I try to go dressy causual. Sometimes I wear neatly pressed dress shorts and polo shirt.

I will wear my Jimmy Buffett Parrot Hat or my Red Green fisherman's cap when I'm giong to thos efun events. Like KOKO wears his Goofy hat to Disneyworld (I never had a Goofy hat! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif )

For Hawaii and on my birthday: my "Paradise on a Hanger" cat design Hawaiian shirt from Wanderlust." If I get the dress police after me I will top it with my Brooks Bros navy blue blazer.

PremEx is right: If I see people barefoot and in too short shorts or messy t-shirts in first I feel uncomfortable. I even would feel uncomfortable with Jennifer lopez pouring out of some skimpy thong like barely clothing.

Basically for dressing: use common sense and be considerate of your fellow passengers.

I'd like to work in my boxer shorts on my job. I do at home. BUT I can't.



[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 08-18-2000).]

Wouldn't you say that how a person dresses, whether travelling or any other time, says a lot about them? Some folks just aren't that concerned about appearance, some really are, as well as the shades of gray in between. The "are concerned" group isn't going to convince the "aren't concerned" group that something as trivial as what clothes to wear on an airplane is important. (I, myself, am the worst of the lot -- I really don't care, but I worry what those who do would think of me if I looked like the carefree slob that lurks inside me!)