mauld

Perhaps I haven't been around enough, but this was a new one for me. I checked into the Hyatt Regency in downtown Atlanta (which is a mega sized convention hotel). They usually have 4 different restaurants, but for some reason 3 of those where closed for private parties/renovations. This left the 'Kafe Kobenhavn', a salad bar/sandwich shoppe. Fine with me! Only problem was at 5 pm the place was packed (obviously with all others closed). So I thought I would just order something and take it back to my room.
On the bottom of their menu they state "15% Gratuity Charge Plus Tax on Take Out" !!
It was only on their menu (not on the posted menus of the other restaurants. I couldn't imagine what is was for. If you took the salad bar, you pack up your own salad, if you ordered a sandwich the cook makes it up and it's placed in a bag. What's the non optional gratuity charge for????
Needless to say, I just went outside to the KFC next door!

Chattyaholic

Good for you! If others did the same they might get the message and take the mandatory 15% charge off. One gripe of mine is restaurants that say "for parties of 8 or more a 15% gratuity will be added." I don't like being forced to leave a tip! If the service wasn't good I'm not about to tip 15%.
People should be allowed to tip whatever they feel is appropriate.

ozstamps

Only 15%?

I was in London recently at a dinner hosted by an American colleague.

Bill as always in London for VERY ordinary food with lousy British waiter service was with booze, equal to the national GNP of Cambodia or somewhere like that.

Then the menu said 17.5% GST was extra, AND a "15% service charge" was also automatically extra. That is 32.5% just there on top of the Bolivia GNP.

And my friend, being one of you luvvvverly Americans who is genetically coded to blindly tip everyone he meets from birth til death, automatically added another 15% to the credit card tip stub til I politely pointed out the previous 17.5% and 15% he was adding it onto!






[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 08-11-2000).]

raffy

mauld, Unfortunately, I too have seen this done in a slightly different way. Somehow, many Miami Beach restaurants and environs believe they are an extension of Europe, where they can automatically add a 15% - 20% gratuity to the final bill. While this is not necessarily an issue for a full service restaurant, where the service was pleasant, I did dispute the added gratuity on a buffet meal I had at a Sheraton in Miami Beach.

After making the adjustment to the bill and signing the credit card slip, the hostess came running after me to advise that I didn't have the option but to pay the entire amount of the 20% gratuity. Since I had only ever seen this done in Europe, I was rather taken back not only by her behavior, but her insistence that I had no choice.

In the end, I paid what I felt the server deserved and for the level of service received, considering that it was a breakfast buffet that was the end of the confrontation.
I wonder how many others simply agree to be charged and don't dispute the added gratuity. For the most part, since the amount charged is rather small, I suppose it can be a non issue for most, however, I only made it an issue after the hostess made a fuss about it.

james

The 17.5% Value Added Tax goes straight to the treasury without passing go - although it is unusal that it wasn't included in all the advertised prices. However, it's not like the restaurant had any discretion in billing it to you!

As for the "lousy British waiter service" - how true

mauld

Yes I do understand when they post a gratuity charge for dinners, or for a certain number of people---but this was for a 'take out' order. What service did I receive??? I would have stood at the counter, waited for my food to be prepared by the cook (or filled my own plastic box with salad), taken it to the cashier, paid for it and left. For this I'm charged a service fee????

[This message has been edited by mauld (edited 08-11-2000).]

silverpie

It's getting bad. One place in NJ automatically adds a 19% tip--and since it's not optional, you pay sales tax on it!

On a somewhat milder note, the Rainforest Café in Nashville tries to claim that the "customary" tip is 17%. Aside from the ugly factor, that just isn't so.

yonatan

I agree this whole 15% business is being taken to new highs (read: lows).
(warning: mildely long rant coming up):
At a cafe in SAN a few months ago, where one simply gets the (expensive) food at the counter and then sits down, I was paying with a credit card a few months ago. I was surprised when the woman at the counter told me to follow the directions on a little screen in front of me after taking my card (wherefor?), and even more surprised to see that the screen's function was to ask me how much I wanted to tip (all the while with the aforementioned lady staring very intently at me). This is at a place where the "service" involves taking the ordered wares from the glass cabinet and setting it on the counter in front of the customer. What's next - the same tipping question at the check-out line at Albertson's?
(there, I've gotten it off my chest!)

Butcher Bird

The required tip on takeout seems a bit excessive, and that is a new one. Essentially, that just means that they slap on a required tip on everything. -A bit much.

I would have to defend the practice of placing a mandatory tip on parties of 6 or 8 or greater. Point being that a party of say 8, can easily run-up a $1,000 dinner tab. The foodserver is allocated 8% of that amount in tip income, meaning that they have to claim $80 in tip income. Assuming a 15% marginal Fed rate, 7.65% SS tax rate and say 2-3% state tax rate; this person is quite literally $20 (25% (combined marginal brackets) of the $80) out of pocket from the start. E.g., the foodserver gets to scurry around and "serve" you all night and gets the added pleasure of paying $20 for doing so. In the U.S., they are generally receiving $2.10 per hour wages.

This practice is different in other countries, and it seems that in most places the foodservers receive a decent wage, and then get almost no tips. The X% add-on is usually some form of VAT which goes to the government, although this was not the case in Costa Rica. E.g., there the foodserver received all of the add-on percentage directly.

mauld

Butcher Bird, I agree and don't see a problem with a specified tip on large parties, but this did seem strange. Stranger still, the notation of the additional charge for take out was not on any of the posted menus for the hotels other restaurants. So effectively, if they had been open I could have ordered 'take out' from those (abet, more expensive places) with no gratuity added. But the lobby salad bar/sandwich spot adds it in??
PS-I wonder who would be receiving this tip?? The cashier or the cook--those would have been the only two involved in my order.
(Yes, for take out there, you just stand by the cashier & give her the order and she passes it on to the cook).

[This message has been edited by mauld (edited 08-11-2000).]

ozstamps

What perplexes me is that we are all agreeing that in the USA, and now many parts of Europe, a typical 15% "slug" (please do not call it a "tip" if you have no choice or inclination!) is being added many checks.

On a $400 dinner for 4 that is $60. Maybe for good food and service, maybe not.

Here is my question.

You get to an airport and the UA staffer is smiling, sweet, OK's an upgrade for you and your campanion, "forgets" to take your upgrade 500 mile coupons with a smile, and assigns your favourite seats, and is otherwise a superb service person.

If you passed over $20 to him/her that would be deemed most inapporopriate .

WHY !!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!!

I would HAPPILY offer a person like that 20 bucks rather than 15% to some unwashed New York Cabbie who abuses me all the way to Newark, or to some bored waitress chewing gum.

mauld

Thats part of the reason this whole thing came up in the first place. I don't (for many reasons) like ordering room service in hotels. I find the 18% service charge + tax + $2 or$3 delivery fee, to be a bit excessive, especially when the deliverer stands there waiting for an additional tip to be added in. So for a $3.00 cup of soup you end up paying close to 10 bucks!!!!

fallinasleep

Butcher Bird: I have nothing against waiters and almost always leave at least 15% (I am in that group that feels guilty if I leave less, unless service is horrendous), but in your example, I don't understand your point. Everyone pays taxes. Waiters should as well. And the waiter/waitress in your example got to keep about $60 for maybe 2 or 3 hours of work at one table. That's not including the other tables that he/she covered that night. So, what's wrong with making ~$20/hour after tax. Granted, the norm is probably closer to $6/hr at a diner in the US, but at a really nice 4* restaurant in Manhattan, that would be low.

What really annoys me though is having to pay 15% or more gratuity on expensive wine. It doesn't cost any more to uncork an expensive bottle than a supermarket-shelf brand!

Non-NonRev

I think the Miami practice arises from the fact that, as Europe-originating visitation grew, many servers were being left NO gratuity by partons who assumed that the "service" was included as it was in their home countries.

I believe that the Miami-Dade ordinance covering tipping does allow mandatory tipping , but it also provides for mandatory and explicit posting of whatever the policy is. The ordinance was revised recently to mandate UNIFORM application of any tipping policy, this after the owner of a certain popular Thai restaurant in South Miami Beach was caught placing mandatory tips on certain customers' bills and not on others, the people receivig the forced tips all being part of a single ethnic group .....

opus17

I'm not a huge fan of our U.S. custom of tipping (I prefer the European model where the tip is built into the menu price) but...

If I order takeout at a full service restaurant, I normally tip at least 10%. (Example: order a pizza at the local Italian restaurant. But I wouldn't leave a tip at Domino's (a pizza chain catering to takeout and delivery).

For a breakfast buffet at a hotel, I leave at least 10% for minimal attention from the waiter. I leave more if I ask for something special not on the buffet. Same tip at a salad-bar type of restaurant -- someone is still cleaning the table, bringing water, etc.

When I eat at a table at a full service restaurant, I normally tip 15-20%.

Even in Switzerland, where the "trinkgeld" is built in, I normally "round up" the bill to at least the nearest franc.