Karl, get real!

I remember my DSM-STL-SAT flight to basic training. I was 19, but the 'airline' drinking age was 21. A few of the other recruits on the flight talked the FA's into serving them, I declined. Glad I did because the drill sergeant that met us at the airport was none too amused with those with 'beer breath'. Their basic training was just a titch more unpleasant than it had to be!

Cheers,

'toad

Catman:
I've met you - remember?
I can't help thinking that the women who carded you just wanted a chance to get to know you better.

Of course I remember Phil. It was one of the best meetings I've ever had with a FlyerTalk. Wonderful company with you and Sally!

The risk of being carded alwasy has me carry three forms of I-D. Sometimes I flash my Police Press pass first... they'll think I'm one of New York's finest and thus the drinks can start coming!

OK My friends! please vouche for my age at the PIP. It would be embarassing to get carded there as well!



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MEOW! MEOW! MEOW!!!

pgupta: I'm VERY much enjoying the martini-like dryness of your humor nowadays. I'm tempted to set you up just to get another taste.

Ranles: Karl is being quite real. Drinking laws are notoriously inadequate to quell demand for getting drunk. They're not supposed to, I understand, but this world condemns people to want drink. If you don't want kids drinking in cars, stop the moralizing and stop the demonizing of alcohol and permit drinking in safer environments.

And Jon Toner: would that it mattered if people were drunk or sober when they voted. Pull a lever, any lever. It really doesn't matter much which one by the time the choice has been narrowed to Clinton or BUsh, or Clinton or Dole, or Gore or Bush, or any Republican v. any Democrat. How much difference is there, REALLY? How much substantive difference?

bryan - you've been taking lessons from some of our wickeder posters... [Wicked in this context is used as a compliment] - or perhaps you're just allowing your own self to show a little more :]

Catman - I sometimes get ID-ed by people who want to know where I'm from. I give them my foreign drivers licence instead of my MA one.
Then there was the 18-year-old who ID-ed me in the days before I had a US licence. He refused to accept my ID, despite the fact that it's metal and pretty much unfake-able and I have an *obviously* foreign accent. I don't think I look that young, but heck - take the compliments when they come.

If you are old enough to die for your country or elect those who send you to possible death, you should be able to drink yourself silly.

OK -- here we go...

Has anyone ever noticed the dichotomy between the controls of alcohol and tobacco? Isn't it just a bit bizarre that a country built on the foundation of freedom from government interference spends literally billions of dollars attempting to control one while accepting money in the form of contributions to keep the other widely available? It should be enough to drive people to Bryan's thesis that pull any lever because it really doesn't matter (I subscribe to that theory only as it conforms to reality, not my own personal belief in what should be)[but I'm cynical, remember Bryan?]...

When I was at the University of Hawaii, the legal drinking age was 18. I had been raised somewhat in the French tradition (tho I have no knowledge of that bloodline in my family). I was drinking wine at the age of 12 -- probably 25% wine and 75% water. When I went to college I had a healthy respect for not only what I put in my body, but the concept of moderation. I saw many, many 18 year olds whose only concept of alcohol was to consume the most and in the quickest possible manner. That was a long time ago.

As the step-father to an 18 year old, I realize that there is no way in heck to control her behavior. Hopefully we have been able to impart a sense of responsibility upon her vis-a-vis alcohol and other substances. The choices -- and the consequences -- are hers...

Exiting from soapbox...



[This message has been edited by onefreeman (edited 07-09-1999).]

Thanks Bryan. (Sorry baobab for spoiling your nectar hunt).

:]

Comment of Rudi's post: Although the nightclub in Seattle incedent was embarrassing, they did the right thing. I have seen bars let people that were under 21 if their parants were with him, even with police present; but in your case, I don't think they had any choice because they can be fined, sued, or held liable if they let in people under 21. I was on a date last year and the person I was with was 20 and 11 months and 3 weeks, but the place, an adult arcade, would not let her in with me....I was a little embarassed but sort of suspected they wouldn't, so I was prepared but thought it was worth a try anyway.

Being someone who has lived in both the US and Europe, I believe I can safely say that the US drinking laws make NO sense. The 21 age limit has to be about the most abused law in the world. The number of fake ids has to be in the millions - it just doesn't work. And then when American kids get to college and see alcohol at the age of 19/20, they get all excited and abuse it - hence, binge drinking in colleges and fraternities. In Europe, this does not happen to such an extent. My boarding school had a bar and we were taught by the time we graduated (i.e. by the time, we're 18) that alcohol isn't such a big thing. That's the problem with the US law: it makes it a big thing.

Just thought I'd give you my scoop!

By the way, what are the actual rules regarding who can drink and who can't when you fly, say, between London and the US? Or is it by the nationality of the carrier concerned? I know most US airlines rarely id people - and European ones certainly don't!

Leroy, I think (from limited, anecdotal evidence from US and UK carriers) the rule goes by nationality of the carrier. At least all the US carriers have a little rule in the in-flight mag saying 'Alcohol will nopt be served to passengers under 21 years of age'. Meanwhile it is 18 for BA and VS.

I have never seen any attempt made to enforce these rules.

[This message has been edited by james (edited 07-14-1999).]

The basic rule: COMMON SENSE. OneFreeman: with you and Raeban supporting your 18 year old daughter she already has a lot of it and will be fine.

That was teh one thing my aunt told me about just about everything "You have COMMON SENSE MARK (I was NOT CATMAN THEN -- she did not care for CATS) use it.

No Alcohol till 23.
No smoking till the cigar at the Hilton Palacio Del Party, San Antonio.

These were all personal choices and I think if you mix common sense with your own sensibilities (we all have them) then we all should be fine.

And Baobab: I'm not surprised they card you... you don't look a day over 18!

Me on the other hand... being called 42 by one of the interns thursday was humbling!

Don't feel too bad, Catman, whenever I'm with my mother nine times outta ten people think that's my wife! And remember, 42... the answer to life, the universe and everything!

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AlphaSigOU
Causa latet vis est notissima - the cause is hidden, the results are well-known.