Why do the airlines care where I spend Saturday night?
Jun 24, 1999, 1:57 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
they care about you and want you well rested for your trip home... just kidding.
Honestly, the Sat. night stay requirement allows the airlines to "justify" the full-fares they charge the business traveller. It does not cost the airline any more to fly you home Friday night than it does on Sunday morning.
Honestly, the Sat. night stay requirement allows the airlines to "justify" the full-fares they charge the business traveller. It does not cost the airline any more to fly you home Friday night than it does on Sunday morning.
Jun 24, 1999, 3:03 pm
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
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why does Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt/Starwoods/etc/etc/etc offer much better prices (not in resorts) on weekends than on weekdays - when personal-costs for Saturday/Sunday work is higher?
it is our new "holy cow": the free market! to find a balance between supply and demand.
it is our new "holy cow": the free market! to find a balance between supply and demand.
Jun 24, 1999, 3:22 pm
#5
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Florida USA
Programs: DL-MM/FC/FO AA-EXP/MM Starwood-Platinum Marriott-Platinum Hilton-Gold Hyatt-Diamond
Posts: 1,515
The vast majority of business travellers do not spend weekends in hotels, they are home with their friends and family (huh? no i dont work for MCI) 
As a result, many hotels face occupancy rates well below 50%. Remember, fixed costs still continue, regardless of the day of the week. Interest on loans, utilities etc. Staff is pegged to occupancy so they are generally never overstaffed.
Any extra business they can attract is basically found money. It costs about $13.00-$17.00 to service an occupied room per day. Maid time, laundry time, check-in/outtime, etc.
Some independent hotel management companies run weekend get-a-way programs that include meals to attract local business that might never think of a local weekend get-a-way.
TW
As a result, many hotels face occupancy rates well below 50%. Remember, fixed costs still continue, regardless of the day of the week. Interest on loans, utilities etc. Staff is pegged to occupancy so they are generally never overstaffed.
Any extra business they can attract is basically found money. It costs about $13.00-$17.00 to service an occupied room per day. Maid time, laundry time, check-in/outtime, etc.
Some independent hotel management companies run weekend get-a-way programs that include meals to attract local business that might never think of a local weekend get-a-way.
TW
Jun 24, 1999, 5:29 pm
#6
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Like Rudi says money earned by studying the suppy/demand curve and exploiting it makes the world go 'round. I recently spent the same amount (or a little more) for a 2 day auto rental at a daily "bussiness rate" as I'd have to spend in order to rent the same car for the entire week at an "economy rate"! Sad but true in almost everything. We try to spot and take advantage of the exceptions!
Jun 24, 1999, 7:19 pm
#7
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Escondido CA USA
Programs: AS, UA, HY, Hil, Merr
Posts: 3,207
If it was not for supply and demand analysis, load factors, utility curves, etc. we would all be moaning the absence of available space when we want it and the cost of doing business would be skyrocketing.
If a hotel (car rental company, restaurant, airline, roofer, air conditioner installer etc.)did not adjust prices for seasonal demand, then the price would be too high in the offseason (no busines) and too low in the high season (lost revenue, no vacacancy, car, appoitment, etc). So by lower the prices in the offseason they shift some of the demand to those periods. By raising the prices in peak season, they maximize revenue and balance what would be a shortfall of supply otherwise.
Smart "shoppers" look for the "sholder periods" (just before peak or just after) to get the bargains, and still benefit partically in the "high time". Staying Sunday night, gets you a lower rate (usually) and a good start Monday morning on that meeting (sure who wants to spend the weekend in a hotel on business? That is just the point, lots of people NOT on business do, so a lower rate is offered to get local to spend the "romatic weekend at Hyatt". Similarly, air conditioning installer give you a break for winter installations, when business is slow. etc etc etc. ECON 101. Thanks for the opportunity. Warning simplified presentation!!
If a hotel (car rental company, restaurant, airline, roofer, air conditioner installer etc.)did not adjust prices for seasonal demand, then the price would be too high in the offseason (no busines) and too low in the high season (lost revenue, no vacacancy, car, appoitment, etc). So by lower the prices in the offseason they shift some of the demand to those periods. By raising the prices in peak season, they maximize revenue and balance what would be a shortfall of supply otherwise.
Smart "shoppers" look for the "sholder periods" (just before peak or just after) to get the bargains, and still benefit partically in the "high time". Staying Sunday night, gets you a lower rate (usually) and a good start Monday morning on that meeting (sure who wants to spend the weekend in a hotel on business? That is just the point, lots of people NOT on business do, so a lower rate is offered to get local to spend the "romatic weekend at Hyatt". Similarly, air conditioning installer give you a break for winter installations, when business is slow. etc etc etc. ECON 101. Thanks for the opportunity. Warning simplified presentation!!
Jun 25, 1999, 6:52 pm
#8
Join Date: May 1999
Location: JFK, LGA, EWR
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don't get me started on supply and demand...especially when it comes to car rentals! i live on an island where most people are...how shall i delicately put it... "automotively-challenged." nobody owns a car in new york! (but everybody wants to leave the city for the weekend)
consequently, the rules that normally apply to car rentals simply don't apply in new york. while the rest of the country has high midweek rates and enjoys low weekend specials, new york has daily weekend rates in the stratosphere: as high as $80 - $125 a day during peak summer weekends.
the new york car rental landscape has never seen a $19.95 or $29.95 "weekend" special. and most discount coupons and advertised specials contain the following dreaded small print: "not available in the new york metro area." and forget about trying to book free award rentals...nearly impossible.
plus all the manhattan agencies overbook bigtime on the weekends, so as the day wears on, it becomes increasingly less likely that a car - any car - will be available for you when you show up to claim your reservation.
it's an odd ritual that plays itself out the same way nearly every weekend. all new york car rental companies have a team of part-time workers who only work fridays and sundays ...driving hundreds of cars from the new york/new jersey airports to manhattan locations on friday mornings and reversing the process sunday nights and monday mornings. it's a logistical jigsaw puzzle because they often have no place to put the cars. they're often double and triple parked on the street. and immediately upon returning the car, a driver will get in and take it back to the airport!
anyway... on a somewhat more related note to this saturday night hotel stay thread:
my employer, a US-based fortune 100 company, used to have a policy encouraging us to stay over a saturday night to reduce airfare costs...they then allowed us to spend 66% of what we saved on airfare and apply it to hotel and per diem costs (but not car rental...i think it had something to do with tax regulations).
it was a fabulous opportunity to visit friends, explore unknown cities, add a little side trip to your business ...and it was always good for a few extra points in your favorite hotel program. sometimes, you could even earn extra frequent flyer miles because they didn't care what other cities you visited on your trip, as long as you stayed over a saturday and the total airfare was less than the cost of the original M-F business travel.
alas, they have done away with the policy.
it seems that a few select individuals were playing the game a little too greedily. they would wait until the last minute to book their trip, so, of course, there would always be a HUGE saving by staying over a saturday night. but no true saving to the company compared to what the cost would have been had they booked their trip on a more timely basis.
we are indeed still allowed to book a saturday stayover if it reduces the overall cost. (but they no longer give us anything towards our additional lodging expense.)
consequently, the rules that normally apply to car rentals simply don't apply in new york. while the rest of the country has high midweek rates and enjoys low weekend specials, new york has daily weekend rates in the stratosphere: as high as $80 - $125 a day during peak summer weekends.
the new york car rental landscape has never seen a $19.95 or $29.95 "weekend" special. and most discount coupons and advertised specials contain the following dreaded small print: "not available in the new york metro area." and forget about trying to book free award rentals...nearly impossible.
plus all the manhattan agencies overbook bigtime on the weekends, so as the day wears on, it becomes increasingly less likely that a car - any car - will be available for you when you show up to claim your reservation.
it's an odd ritual that plays itself out the same way nearly every weekend. all new york car rental companies have a team of part-time workers who only work fridays and sundays ...driving hundreds of cars from the new york/new jersey airports to manhattan locations on friday mornings and reversing the process sunday nights and monday mornings. it's a logistical jigsaw puzzle because they often have no place to put the cars. they're often double and triple parked on the street. and immediately upon returning the car, a driver will get in and take it back to the airport!
anyway... on a somewhat more related note to this saturday night hotel stay thread:
my employer, a US-based fortune 100 company, used to have a policy encouraging us to stay over a saturday night to reduce airfare costs...they then allowed us to spend 66% of what we saved on airfare and apply it to hotel and per diem costs (but not car rental...i think it had something to do with tax regulations).
it was a fabulous opportunity to visit friends, explore unknown cities, add a little side trip to your business ...and it was always good for a few extra points in your favorite hotel program. sometimes, you could even earn extra frequent flyer miles because they didn't care what other cities you visited on your trip, as long as you stayed over a saturday and the total airfare was less than the cost of the original M-F business travel.
alas, they have done away with the policy.
it seems that a few select individuals were playing the game a little too greedily. they would wait until the last minute to book their trip, so, of course, there would always be a HUGE saving by staying over a saturday night. but no true saving to the company compared to what the cost would have been had they booked their trip on a more timely basis.
we are indeed still allowed to book a saturday stayover if it reduces the overall cost. (but they no longer give us anything towards our additional lodging expense.)
Jun 26, 1999, 11:25 pm
#9
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Aurora, Co. U.S.A
Posts: 51
By the way, I talked to AMEX travel(Corporate Choice) and they told me that the airlines are cracking down on "Back to Back" tickets. They mentioned Delta as the one that had caught "BAck to Back", making them purchase full fare tickets.
It just goes to show you that you can't fool all the (airline)people all the time.
It just goes to show you that you can't fool all the (airline)people all the time.
Jun 27, 1999, 10:04 am
#10
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
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If you're going to use back to back ticketing, my suggestion is don't be dumb enough to try it on the same airline, especially if you want to collect FF miles!
If you make a back to back reservation on the same airline and enter your FF number on both tickets, you deserve to get caught! It's just takes the application of a little computing power and some very simple computer code to catch you at that point!
If you want to fly the same airline on a back to back ticket, you better only enter you FF number on one ticket at the most!
Obviously if you're flying different airlines, that will greatly increase your chances of "getting away" with it.
If you make a back to back reservation on the same airline and enter your FF number on both tickets, you deserve to get caught! It's just takes the application of a little computing power and some very simple computer code to catch you at that point!
If you want to fly the same airline on a back to back ticket, you better only enter you FF number on one ticket at the most!
Obviously if you're flying different airlines, that will greatly increase your chances of "getting away" with it.
Jun 28, 1999, 2:27 pm
#11
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Good point Beckles!
UK Stages- Have you ever tried reserving at the airports like LAG, EWR instead? A "rush hour free" cabride to LAG isn't too bad and if you live downtown, they have that Olympia Trails shuttle, right? Is the differential/aggravation possibly worth it? Just an "offbeat" suggestion!
UK Stages- Have you ever tried reserving at the airports like LAG, EWR instead? A "rush hour free" cabride to LAG isn't too bad and if you live downtown, they have that Olympia Trails shuttle, right? Is the differential/aggravation possibly worth it? Just an "offbeat" suggestion!
Jun 29, 1999, 10:58 pm
#12
Join Date: May 1999
Location: JFK, LGA, EWR
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doc: thanks for the suggestion. i have indeed used the airport reservation strategy to reduce car rental fees. i live on manhattan's west side, so EWR is a breeze... there is a convenient NJ transit bus from port authority. EWR weekend savings can be considerable if you catch it just right. but they do claim that you need to be on an arriving flight to get the airport rate, so i'm always worried that someone will ask to see my boarding pass -- but they never ever have, either because they're not very strict ...or because i go straight to my waiting car (avis preferred).
the car rental agencies got wise to city folk going to the airports to pick up a car long ago, but decent rates are still available at EWR. the weekend "airport specials" at LGA and JFK, however, aren't very good at all.
the car rental agencies got wise to city folk going to the airports to pick up a car long ago, but decent rates are still available at EWR. the weekend "airport specials" at LGA and JFK, however, aren't very good at all.