bhomburg

On the outbound flight, I can see this working. All that's normally checked for the intra-Schengen leg is the BP. Fred 1 could give his BP to somebody else who could take that flight and it would go undetected, absolutely.
The return, now , that's a different story:
The probability that this will not just 'could be' a show-stopper but 'really' be a show-stopper is very very high.
When checking in for the return flight, as the destination is the US there's an additional ID check with some silly questions mandated by the US. This check is mostly done at the beginning of the journey, before check-in, not at the transfer hub, so Fred2 would have to pass this showing his passport, not Fred1. So unless Fred 2 would have Fred 1's passport and they'd look alike, that'd be the end.

Fred 1 needs to talk to their employer to either pay for business class or allow him this money-saving routing on company time.
I was able to enjoy a lot of freedom in booking my business travels ("as long as it doesn't cost a dime more than XX you can book whatever you want", where XX was the cost for the flight the company would have booked), but that was mostly because I needed to travel with an assistance dog, travel policies weren't written/designed to accommodate that and nobody wanted to deal with it.

roberino

Conviviality, apparently.

A while ago I travelled hand luggage only to the US and don’t recall having to do anything other than say I had an ESTA and show my passport. Fred2 can say yes to the question and show his passport. Or am I missing something?

It’s not DUB. No pre-clearance involved.

TravellingSalesman

Agree with those who say that this is a terrible idea for Fred1. But if said Fred does go through with it - please update us with a detailed report!

GUWonder

Right Said Fred meet Wrong Said Fred, aka Fred1.

Fellow conspirators may find that in-person meetings increase mutual confidence levels in advancing a plot. Also, some such people don’t find possibly monitored/recorded audio/video calls or online messages/postings to be a perfect substitute for in-person meetings to advance a plot.

The probability of it working/failing on the US-bound varies. And the measure of it working/failing ties back significantly to the likelihood on when OLCI works or not to get an airline-accepted PYO boarding pass from EU2-EU1 on the EU2-EU1-US itinerary without checked luggage.

Here’s what I said in context (with bolding added):

For the times when OLCI doesn’t produce a PYO boarding pass for EU2-EU1 on the itinerary and prompts for an in-person check-in and passport scan, that’s the big show-stopper even if ignoring all the other crazy risks Fred1 is assuming with this kind of behavior.

With regard to the following quote:
The in-person ID check and questions by the airlines have taken place at EU2 and EU1 on some EU2-EU1-US itineraries, while on other EU2-EU1-US itineraries they have taken place just at EU1.

blue2002

You are assuming Fred2 holds a passport from a Visa Waiver Program country.

roberino

He does.

GUWonder

Probably a reasonably safe assumption, for the circumstances. But if Fred2 is being asked to physically present a passport to the airline at EU2 check-in/boarding, Fred2 would be even more foolish to proceed to pull out a passport instead of aborting the trip on the basis of not having the passport and putting the ball back in Fred1’s court with Fred1’s plan messed up and subject to change fees and likely expensive re-pricing.

The PNR loaded passport of a US VWP country is to be flown with an ESTA or other documentation evidencing an exemption to ESTA. And a lot of adult passports in EU countries expire within 5 years of issue date even before considering the minimum time left requirement on a foreign passport to be used for a journey. But all this passport stuff for Fred2 would be irrelevant if Fred2 were at least not so foolish as to try to present any passport to the airline at EU2.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Fred2 were to simply use the EU1-EU2 and then leave Fred1 out in the cold over EU2-EU1. If not even back out entirely after giving the issue further thought over EU1-EU2.

The accounting department will definitely get a story out of this when the luck will eventually run out.

roberino

Bit of an update. Fred1 has already bought the ticket, although it is largely refundable (minus a typical fee). I’ve relayed some comments from this thread to him and he’s now a touch wobbly on his “bulletproof” scheme. Mainly, his worries centre around that he couldn’t ascertain whether his chosen airline would require “his” ID be physically checked before EU2-EU1. I’ve told him that without this checked and guaranteed he should abandon the plan. Look out for any angling enquiries of this nature on FT !

He seems really confident that he and Fred2 wouldn’t be rerouted in case of IRROPS, even though I could show him an example of a reroute changing things from EU2-EU1-NAX to EU2-NA2-NAX. I even mention that if there is ANY change to the itinerary then both he and Fred2 are in the whole for one way tickets from EU2-EU1 and EU1-NAX.

Fred1 is 100% convinced that Fred2 is a good guy and won’t screw him over, either maliciously or to try and recover things in the case of IRROPS. On the contrary, Fred1 is quite trusting and seems to already believe he’s made a friend for life (hence the coffee together in EU1). If you’re imaging a sort of human-shaped Labrador at this point you’re pretty much on the money.

I give it a week before he caves in and cancels the ticket. I suggested he watch ticket prices as for his routing several online vendors recommend waiting. If the NAX-EU1 price comes into range this will be over pretty quick.

Oh, and Fred2 has apparently booked his hotel in EU2 now and it’s non-refundable…

blue2002

Brilliant. Let me get more popcorn...

flying_geek

Any single PNR flight to US will result in first departure point wanting to see passport - nothing to do with pre-clearance.

As far as flying to Europe - for most Schengen flights this would work. Even if you got SSSS on the US-EU1 segment, you can typically retrieve the connection boarding pass in the app after you boarded. And quite frankly a good photo of the bar code would probably get F2 past the automated gates for the EU flight. In most Schengen countries security will not check the boarding pass (they are checked before you get into the security lane - kinda like TSA - except you queue after board pass check which is just for access) and no ID is required in most countries. Most countries do not check ID when boarding either. In the vast majority of cases the 2nd flight could be taken by any firstname. any lastname. Nowadays it probably doesn't even matter if a female flew for Fred.Smith - if anybody asks say she self identifies as male, scream discrimination and the staff would let her move on.

Not advocating doing this - but depending on the EU1 and EU2 destinations, the flying part would almost certainly work.

roberino

OK, but what does “see passport” mean here? Is someone cross-checking the passport number and detailed personal information, or just a “yeah you’re Fred Smith, that’ll do”?

USA_flyer

Please don't stop your friend doing this. I'm very keen to find out if he can pull it off.

bhomburg

In my experience, the agent has a good look at the passport and definitely cross-checks passport and BP.
I was denied boarding at one such check when the agent determined my passport wasn't up to standards anymore (it fell apart). Not fun.

GUWonder

Often but far from always.

Have had lots of experiences where that wasn’t the case when I am doing EU2-EU1-US routings; but then I end up having to show passports at EU1 to either use the boarding passes already in hand for EU1-US or get issued boarding passes for EU1-US.

realworld

It is entertaining! I think Fred should definitely do it and live stream it!