KRSW

Not a problem for me -- they don't use covid masks on private/charter flights, least none of the 40 or so flights I've had in the past year. On an unpressurized aircraft I will usually reach for the O2 hose around 10,000' or 8,000' if I'm tired or at night, but that's about it.

seat38a

Seems to be happening at AA by "mistake". Based on their current situation, it might be happening by "mistake" more often.
Oxygen Masks Deploy By Mistake on AA Flight

Scots_Al

Whilst I might forget I'm wearing a mask (as I have occasionally done when lifting a glass to my mouth!), it's not that I don't know it would need to be removed before fitting an oxygen mask, so telling me to remove it in a safety demonstration sometime earlier wouldn't fix the problem... I suspect that much like when the glass gets to my mouth, I would remember that I was wearing a mask and take it off.

imnotalawyer

I suspect this question is intended as some sort of "gotcha" against masking requirements... which... I mean, good grief, give it up already...

In the event of a cabin depressurization it is not as if you are being forcibly strangled. While not ideal, you can still breath through both your O2 mask and your surgical mask but there will likely be some reduced efficiencies due to improper seal. Assuming that you are not in some catastrophic emergency (like the plane falling out of the sky) I suspect that passengers will be smart enough to correct the issue before any actual danger is realized.

chrisl137

If you look up pictures from inside the cabin of WN1380, almost everybody was wearing their O2 mask wrong - virtually every passenger had it covering their mouth only and had their nose sticking out. Everybody looks fine and alert, so the pictures are probably all from after the aircraft was down to ~10K feet anyway, but it gives you some idea how people react or how much attention they pay to the safety briefing. It would probably help if the masks were actually shaped a little to provide a contour that goes over your nose, but anybody who felt like they were having trouble breathing would probably go out of their way to suck air through their mouth from the mask anyway.

Qwkynuf

Good point. Is the premise supposed to be that one would forget to remove the Covid mask, try to put on the O2 mask, realize that there's a problem and then just freeze???? No one is going to have the presence of mind to say "whoops! need to take this one off first!" and then pull it out of the way?

lwildernorva

I actually see similarities. Of course, a passenger isn't expected to do any more than to take care of their own little corner of the plane. But if you don't stop and think a second about the reason behind that advice--in a crisis, a parent's first instinct is likely to try to place the mask on the child's face, who, of course, is likely to be screaming and thrashing around, making that job difficult enough that the parent is likely to pass out from oxygen deprivation before getting the mask on the child, who will also pass out (and die eventually) from oxygen deprivation. In other words, natural instinct means likely two deaths while the proper procedure means the parent remains conscious to help the child even if oxygen deprivation starts to occur before the mask can be fitted.

The other parts of the safety video--location of life vest, be aware that lights along the floor will lead you to the nearest exit (which, indeed, might be behind you), and getting off the plane immediately without trying to retrieve your luggage, the last an admonition we've seen violated occasionally by passengers on a number of planes--are designed to help you achieve what conscientious, trained pilots are attempting to do with their own failure scenario prep--give them a clear picture of the available options (even if they include reaching for a procedure manual as was done in Sullenberger's case) so that they don't waste precious seconds on panic that might turn a failure into a disaster.

The athletic equivalent of this is seeing a great QB like Brady or Montana do the two-minute drill. I laugh when I hear a TV announcer say that Brady has only 1:34 to drive from his own 10 to get into field goal range for his kicker. Brady and the other great QBs could probably fit two or three drives into that time frame because they practice like it's real and have multiple real-life experiences.

Passengers don't have to do that level of preparation, but paying attention and following the advice can add up when you multiply that out across several hundred passengers who may need to stay alive and evacuate a plane when both an oxygen event occurs and one or more of the plane's engines are on fire.

Does that happen much? Thank goodness, no. But as Clint once said about feeling lucky, "do ya?" I find the more I prepare, the more my luck increases.

writerguyfl

I really don't get why anything thinks this would be a legitimate problem.

If you forget you're wearing the fabric mask when you go to put on the oxygen mask, all you need to do is pull down the fabric. That action takes 2 or 3 seconds, at most. No one is going to as asphyxiate in that amount of time.

DELee

The human factor of panic. That is the most significant variable here.

In two or three seconds agreed. But not all folks respond well under pressure - or lack thereof.

David

LarryJ

It's not about asphyxiation. It's about the time of useful consciousness (TUC).

TUC is how long you are able to reason and take action to help yourself. At altitude, TUC is under a minute and can be as low as 15 to 20 seconds.

imnotalawyer

LarryJ there are two potential problems with the logic of your argument.

As a reference you can look to the FAA Advisory Circular where your table's values were derived from. It notes that there are significant differences between explosive, rapid, and slow decompression conditions (is this a catastrophic change versus a gradual one?). There are differences between these three, as "Rapid Decompression decreases the TUB by at least 50 percent."

Even still, assuming facts in your favor (an explosive decompression), it is not as if an O2 mask placed over a surgical mask is completely ineffective. Let me remind you that we can breath just fine through surgical masks, which primarily serve to shield the exhaust and intake of droplet transmissions. Surgical masks are not an impenetrable barrier. You may of course counter that this "nightmare" hypothetical will cause an improper seal and reduce the O2 mask's efficiency. On that I would agree, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the reduction in efficiency is nominal and not as dangerous as you imply.

As has been suggested before in this topic, if someone places an O2 mask over their surgical mask, they're likely to either correct the issue quickly or continue breathing normally through this reduced-efficiency double-mask-debacle they've created. In either case, masks aren't as bad as the obstinate would lead you to believe.

LarryJ

Well, I didn't make an argument.

I was talking about the comments referencing putting on your own mask first before helping others and asphyxiation during a depressurization event.

pinniped

I know a lot of people who have mostly useless consciousness.

DELee

Hey! There are FlyerTalkers who resemble that remark!

David

ATOBTTR

I went through US Air Force water survival training, which is probably one of the most intense things I've done when you go through the final scenario with the dunker, in the dark, with a wave machine making large waves in the pool. Plenty of people, who have already gone through the stress of pilot training itself, panicked and froze and reverted to "natural instincts" rather than what had been briefed to us during the in-class room and other in-water exercises. I admit I even partially froze up as I was looking for the pull tab on my life-vest.

I've also done the "Altitude Chamber" training which includes actually going in the chamber and taking off a mask at ~25,000 feet of altitude so one begins to experience hypoxia symptoms to know what to look for. In another scenario, they also do a rapid decompression that forces you to quickly grab your emergency oxygen tank and hook it up. That 2-3 seconds could be crucial, especially in a rapid decompression scenario.

I once looped for the Dalai Lama and though he stiffed me after the round, he did tell me on my deathbed that I will have total consciousness.