Does this break cabotage?
Feb 15, 2020 | 7:18 am
#1
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Posts: 17
Does this break cabotage?
I'm doing a US-Asia round trip in 3 days without going landside, just to enjoy the flights. Not by choice, but work obligations forcing me to otherwise waste the tickets.
Ticket 1: USA - YVR
Ticket 2: YVR - HAN (Cx)
Ticket 3: HAN - USA (JAL)
Am I safe if ticket 1 is a US carrier? Do I need to exit immigration at any point? Thanks.
Ticket 1: USA - YVR
Ticket 2: YVR - HAN (Cx)
Ticket 3: HAN - USA (JAL)
Am I safe if ticket 1 is a US carrier? Do I need to exit immigration at any point? Thanks.
Feb 15, 2020 | 6:07 pm
#2
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Cabotage is the transport of goods or passengers between two places in the same country by a transport operator from another country.
The overall purpose of Cabotage rules are to prohibit foreign aircraft from one country traveling into another country and picking up foreign nationals or citizens of the other foreign country and providing transportation to and between points within that foreign country.
Cabotage is defined as a non-remunerated not-for-hire flight between two points within a foreign country, carrying residents whose travel begins and ends in that country
Cabotage is defined as a non-remunerated not-for-hire flight between two points within a foreign country, carrying residents whose travel begins and ends in that country
The definition adopted by International Civil Aviation Organization [ICAO] at the Chicago Convention is, "Each state shall have the right to refuse permission to the aircraft of other contracting states to take on its territory passengers, mail, and cargo destined for another point within its territory.”
And wouldn't it be an airline that's in trouble for violating cabotage regulations by selling a specific ticket, not a passenger?
Is there a different definition?
Feb 15, 2020 | 6:25 pm
#3
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This is not what is generically referred to as cabotage and is covered by US law and DOT rules. You are flying round-trip to HAN.
While it is true that the violation is by the carrier, not the individual, it is the individual who would suffer as well were there a violation as the ticket(s) would be cancelled.and refunded.
While it is true that the violation is by the carrier, not the individual, it is the individual who would suffer as well were there a violation as the ticket(s) would be cancelled.and refunded.
Feb 15, 2020 | 7:06 pm
#4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,698
One common example is flying solely AC for USA-canada-different USA airport
One extreme example that keeps coming up is USA-ICN-Guam. Looks like the Korean airlines have good computers to detect such transits, even for separately purchased itineraries
See https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30704622-post24.html
as for OP's question, I doubt he'll have a problem.
There's no cost benefit (and a huge time waster) to do a transpacific trip versus a 6hour domestic flight (eg EWR-LAX), compared to a potential cheaper but Canadian cabotage of 8hour (EWR-YUL-LAX on AC)
Feb 16, 2020 | 10:30 am
#5
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To be clear, if it were in OP's interests, he could purchase this routing on these carriers on a single ticket and not encounter any issues. Depending on whether the origination and termiantion "USA" are the same, this will be viewed as either a round-trip to HAN or an open jaw.
All of this presumes that by "USA" OP does not mean LAX on the outbound and GUM on the return.
Would be most helpful if OP would provide the "USA" locations for 100% certainty.
All of this presumes that by "USA" OP does not mean LAX on the outbound and GUM on the return.
Would be most helpful if OP would provide the "USA" locations for 100% certainty.
Feb 16, 2020 | 7:04 pm
#6
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That's a modified sixth freedom issue, no? While it could be debated whether this falls under the definition of cabotage, I see nothing of that type in OP's plans - none of the flights begin and end in the same country.
Feb 18, 2020 | 4:46 pm
#7
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Nothing is certain until OP provides the origin & destination airports. But, to be frank, it is almost certain as is. In fact, this routing could be booked on a single ticket (not that single vs. multiple tickets are dispositive).
Oct 18, 2024 | 2:35 pm
#9
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Oct 18, 2024 | 10:46 pm
#10
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Oct 19, 2024 | 7:34 am
#11
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Why would this be enjoyable - even in business or first? I would spend a few days in HAN or change/cancel.
Oct 20, 2024 | 5:38 am
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No. Cabotage is when a foreign carrier flies passengers between a domestic origin and destination (O & D).
Each segment alone is not a domestic O & D.
And considering the MCI-ICN-GUM itinerary as a single trip, it is not a foreign carrier, KE, flying all of it. UA Is an American carrier, so no cabotage.
Each segment alone is not a domestic O & D.
And considering the MCI-ICN-GUM itinerary as a single trip, it is not a foreign carrier, KE, flying all of it. UA Is an American carrier, so no cabotage.