Vegg1960

Not sure if I'm in the right place for this but does anybody know if it is possible for a boeing 767-300 to make it from TFS to MAN in 3 hours 28 mins? I think my travel operator purposefully put me and everyone else on my flight through 19 hours of travel hell because they didn't want to have to cancel the flight and pay for accommodation for everyone.

TechnoTourist

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...035Z/GCTS/EGCC

Shows 3:35 for a scheduled flight, the historic data shows most flights in the 3:50-4:15 range
https://flightaware.com/live/findfli...stination=EGCC

ajeleonard

Plausible with a tailwind

Care to share any more details?

84fiero

Pure flying time wheels up to wheels down, or gate-to-grate time (accounting for taxi time, etc)?

As a very rough ballpark estimate: It's 1,893 miles between the two airports. Taking wikipedia at face value with a notional cruise speed of 533 MPH for the 767, that would make a simple point-to-point time of about 3.56 hours not accounting for: any wind, time to climb & descend, actual true airspeed at the altitudes used for cruise by a given flight, actual routing taken, speed restrictions due to traffic, taxi time at origin and destination, etc.

Is this Thomson? Guessing because that's the only 767 operated flight on that route showing up in recent Flightaware info, which only shows 2 recent flights on that airline for the route in question (not to say there aren't other dates not shown). One clocked in at 3h43m and the other at 4h06m. So I'd guess that 3h28m is in the realm of possibility depending on winds and other conditions as noted above.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...145Z/GCTS/EGCC

What's the underlying issue that prompted the question?

Vegg1960

Hi yes it was a Tui (Thompson) flight and the 3h28 started from before takeoff. Would it still be possible when factoring that in?
Thank you

The pilot had announced "3 and a half hours" to Manchester before the plane had begun to taxi.

Where could I find records of the wind speed and direction on the night?

84fiero

Some pilots will announce wheels-up-to-wheels-down time, some will say total block time, some both - hard to say what he meant.

But the real question is - why is the flight time important? You're alluding to some issue with, presumably, a flight being delayed or canceled after boarding or something like that? If you explain the details and context, we may be able to offer some other inputs or advice.

Any guesses about what the flight time could have or should have been, would be imprecise speculation at best - too many variables that no one outside the airline could confirm.

Vegg1960

I'll try to bullet point any relevant details

• Checked Tui's own tracking app on way to airport and plane was showing on time.
• Queued at checkin for 30 mins and was informed flight was 3 hours delayed
• Checked app and it now said 3 hours late so somehow in 30 mins they had realised it was 3 hours late. And now due at 02:04 (poor)
• Watched the info screen and at around midnight it said go to gate 25 as we will be boarding at 00:30
• Get to the gate but its the Dublin flight that is boarding so seemed apparent we wouldn't be boarding at the same time.
• 02:00 someone turns up and guides us onto busses that take us to the plane out on the tarmac.
• The plane is still being refuelled and cleaned for turn around.
• Loaded onto plane and informed of 3.5 hour flight. Some 45 mins shorter than expected
• Around 3h15mins into the flight we are told we will not be going to Manchester but that we have to stop in London Gatwick as the pilots have reached their flight time.
• We spend another 2.5 hours on the plane before they get busses to take us to the terminal. In this time they inform us that we will be getting coaches the rest of the way.
• 1.5 hours at immigration, 0.5 hours looking for unlisted baggage and 1 hour later queuing for coaches and we are on our way home.

I have approached tui and asked for proof that the journey was possible and that they didn't just put us through all that to protect their own pockets. So yeah, it might just have turned out to be an unavoidable situation, they have offered everyone the 400€ compensation so that we didn't have to go to the trouble of claiming ourselves and the crew were as occomodating as they could be but that is all only valid if they didn't create the horrible situation to save money on providing accommodation if they had cancelled the flight in Tenerife. Does it not seem odd to anyone else that they said they could get us there at a speed that is faster than the planes cruise speed so would have required a strong/constant tail wind for the whole journey but then have to drop us at one of the lowest geographical airports in the country?

ajeleonard

Ultimately you've been offered the appropriate compensation

Not sure why you are so fixed on whether they knew in advance that they would have to divert. It doesn't change anything in terms of the compensation you are owed

I would take the money and move on

Vegg1960

Agreed. There is no financial benefit and it's already unacceptable that they even took off when the pilots didn't have enough flight time to cover the standard journey time but I want to know if they knew they wouldn't make it before hand because if they did, I think it would be fair for people to know what the company those people are handing thousands of pounds over to really thinks of them. This was a plane full of families, it was a late flight so everyone had been put of their hotels for 12 hours already and my 9 year old hadn't slept for 24 hours by the time we got on the coach and she could finally just lie back and sleep. She was in bits. She cried and begged me to just get us home. She tells me now that she doesn't want to go on holiday again. Yeah she'll change her tune between now and next summer but if it turns out Tui put us in that situation on purpose, I want to know. To put it in simple terms, if someone elbowed you in the face in the street, would you feel the same if they had done it on purpose as you would feel if it was an accident? (obviously I don't mean physically cos yes I realise it would feel the same)

84fiero

I'd find it hard to believe that the airline cooked up this scheme just to avoid paying for hotel room at Tenerife. The most likely explanation is what was conveyed by the airline. Forget about a "standard flight time" - it's irrelevant to your question at hand. The estimated flight time is calculated specifically for each flight with the latest forecast route, atmospheric conditions, etc - and that is what would be used for the crew and dispatch to judge whether they will depart within the time rules. But actual experience during the flight often doesn't precisely match what was planned and forecast - atmospheric conditions, actual routes and altitudes, etc. And that can lead to issues such as what you experienced. It's by no means proof of some sort of subterfuge (and you'd have no way to prove it even if it were, short of a lawsuit and subpoenas of airline records or something crazy drastic like that!).

Besides, I'd be willing to bet that for every passenger who shared your feelings that the airline should have bumped the flight to the next day and put everyone in a hotel, there is another passenger who was glad to just be home even if it was very late, rather than having a much longer delay (possibly until quite a bit later the following day).

I've been through similar types of disruptions, often with poor communication from the airline, when I'm tired and grumpy and have had enough (and a couple of times with my wife, and in years past, also with our kid - which is even less fun in these situations). It sucks no matter what, so your frustration is understandable. Though once some time has passed it becomes a story to share and even laugh about. Anyone who flies enough will have similar tales. But in any case, it seems the most likely explanation is the one stated by the airline. On the bright side, they were proactive with compensation and pleasant in interacting with the passengers.

lhrsfo

I wonder if TUI decided that they want the plane at LGW rather than MAN.

KDS777

I'm with the OP here.

I recently went thru a 7 hour ground delay, and then an overnight stay in a connecting city, as a result of what I believe was UAL operations making a conscious decision to deboard our entire flight in MIA just before the door closed, so they could remove a part from our aircraft to keep another flight which had been rerouted to MIA on it's way to the Dominican.

Someone in ops apparently "did the math" and it was cheaper to do so, than keep the Dominican bound plane delayed overnight in MIA with the resulting financial consequences I imagine. I can think of no other reason frankly.

I got the compensation "I wanted" for Mrs KDS777 and myself, but not until after some serious back and forth with UAL on the matter.