Constantly canceling return flight of a round trip
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA 2.996MM & Plat Pro, DL 1MM, GM & Flying Colonel
Posts: 25,037
I am told (IANAL) that in some jurisdictions, California has been mentioned, it is illegal (in the precise sense of that word) to use a ticket for transportation in violation of its terms and conditions. To the extent that this practice violates the CoC (which states the terms and conditions of the ticket), and to the extent that my information is correct, then it is indeed illegal.
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,439
Trips are on United.
I don't know exactly when I will be flying back. Just in this example, not on 1/14. Right now if I book two one ways the price is >$11,000. Two round tickets <$7,000. There is the chance that the round trip might increase more than $4,000 and I would lose money.
Not just the return flight?
More like a half dozen times over a year.
--------
Over the years I have ate the return flight and purchased another round trip because this is a frequent (not 20 times a year). Sometimes I would buy a one way. My upcoming travel looks like I could save the lease payment on my Lexus if I bought two round trips.
For this reason I was wondering about the 'legality' of these bookings. In particular the one I quote above. Also if I didn't book the return round trip until I canceled the original.
I don't know exactly when I will be flying back. Just in this example, not on 1/14. Right now if I book two one ways the price is >$11,000. Two round tickets <$7,000. There is the chance that the round trip might increase more than $4,000 and I would lose money.
Not just the return flight?
More like a half dozen times over a year.
--------
Over the years I have ate the return flight and purchased another round trip because this is a frequent (not 20 times a year). Sometimes I would buy a one way. My upcoming travel looks like I could save the lease payment on my Lexus if I bought two round trips.
For this reason I was wondering about the 'legality' of these bookings. In particular the one I quote above. Also if I didn't book the return round trip until I canceled the original.
Here is what is in the UA CoC:
UA reserves the right to cancel bookings and/or reservations which it deems fraudulent, abusive, illogical, fictitious, which are booked and/or reserved with no intention of flying, or for which the passenger makes a misrepresentation without notice to the passenger or the individual making the booking. The types of improper reservations that UA will cancel without notice include, but are not limited to: reservations made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger; reservations made to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, MP award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available; reservations made to circumvent any of UA’s fare rules, policies or provisions; reservations made for the same passenger on flights traveling on or about the same date between one or more of the same or nearby origin or destination cities; and reservations with connections that depart before the arrival on the inbound flight.
2. The Rules control your membership and participation in the Program and no covenants at law or in equity shall be implied or incorporated, all of which are expressly disclaimed. United has the sole right to interpret and apply the Rules. IF UNITED OR A PARTNER IMPROPERLY DENIES AN ACCRUAL OR BENEFIT, LIABILITY WILL NOT EXCEED THE EQUIVALENT VALUE, AS DETERMINED BY UNITED, OR THE PARTNER AS THE CASE MAY BE, OF THAT ACCRUAL OR BENEFIT. IN NO EVENT SHALL UNITED BE LIABLE TO A MEMBER, OR ANYONE ACTING ON THE MEMBER’S BEHALF, FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST REVENUE OR PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF THE ACTS OR OMISSIONS OF UNITED IN CONNECTION WITH THE PROGRAM, OR COSTS OR ATTORNEYS’ FEES. Any abuse of the Program or failure to follow the Rules, United’s Contract of Carriage, United’s fare rules, Partner rules, terms and conditions or any abuse of any Partner offers or programs, any violation of law, rule, or regulation, any conduct detrimental to the interests of United, any fraudulent activity or attempted fraudulent activity, or any misrepresentation of any information furnished to United or its affiliates by any Member, anyone else acting on the Member's behalf, or any third party (collectively, “Prohibited Conduct”), may result in United exercising any one or more of the following remedies (“United’s Remedies”), with or without notice to the Member: (a) the termination by United of such Member’s membership (including without limitation any Premier or Million Miler status, if applicable), (b) the removal or cancellation by United of any or all accrued mileage, Premier Qualifying Credits and any pending or outstanding award redemptions, certificates, or benefits (including without limitation any benefits associated with Premier (and/or Million Miler) status, if applicable), (c) the confiscation of any award tickets, denial of boarding with respect to any award ticket holders or, at United's discretion, completion of the travel only upon payment of an applicable revenue fare (and applicable taxes and fees), or (d) the loss of other Program benefits. In addition to the foregoing United’s Remedies, United may, upon written request, require the Member to repay the value, as determined by United, of the awards redeemed, certificates or benefits acquired as a result of Prohibited Conduct and, in the event of a Member’s failure to repay, may initiate legal action to recoup the value of awards redeemed, certificates or benefits acquired by the Member through Prohibited Conduct. Members whose accounts have been terminated shall not be eligible to participate in any aspect of the Program and shall not be eligible to enroll with new accounts.
3. In the event United suspects Prohibited Conduct, United reserves the right, with or without notice to the Member, (a) to delay or suspend all activity (including without limitation any mileage redemption activity and processing of any mileage redemption requests for any awards, certificates or benefits, including without limitation any Premier (and/or Million Miler) status benefits) in any MileagePlus account, and (b) to audit or investigate any MileagePlus account at any time. During the course of an audit or investigation, a Member’s account information may be shared with any third party with whom United has contracted to assist in performing such audit or investigation. While the account is suspended, the Member may continue to accrue miles and Premier Qualifying Credits in the account, but no mileage redemptions or other transactions will be permitted and any outstanding award redemptions, certificates and benefits (including without limitation any Premier (and/or Million Miler) status benefits, if applicable) will be subject to cancellation or suspension. Cancelled award redemptions, certificates and benefits must be surrendered to United upon United’s request. Upon completion of the audit or investigation, if Prohibited Conduct has been detected by United, United may exercise any one or more of United’s Remedies or any other remedies available at law or in equity.
3. In the event United suspects Prohibited Conduct, United reserves the right, with or without notice to the Member, (a) to delay or suspend all activity (including without limitation any mileage redemption activity and processing of any mileage redemption requests for any awards, certificates or benefits, including without limitation any Premier (and/or Million Miler) status benefits) in any MileagePlus account, and (b) to audit or investigate any MileagePlus account at any time. During the course of an audit or investigation, a Member’s account information may be shared with any third party with whom United has contracted to assist in performing such audit or investigation. While the account is suspended, the Member may continue to accrue miles and Premier Qualifying Credits in the account, but no mileage redemptions or other transactions will be permitted and any outstanding award redemptions, certificates and benefits (including without limitation any Premier (and/or Million Miler) status benefits, if applicable) will be subject to cancellation or suspension. Cancelled award redemptions, certificates and benefits must be surrendered to United upon United’s request. Upon completion of the audit or investigation, if Prohibited Conduct has been detected by United, United may exercise any one or more of United’s Remedies or any other remedies available at law or in equity.
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,814
Trips are on United.
I don't know exactly when I will be flying back. Just in this example, not on 1/14. Right now if I book two one ways the price is >$11,000. Two round tickets <$7,000. There is the chance that the round trip might increase more than $4,000 and I would lose money.
I don't know exactly when I will be flying back. Just in this example, not on 1/14. Right now if I book two one ways the price is >$11,000. Two round tickets <$7,000. There is the chance that the round trip might increase more than $4,000 and I would lose money.
From the prices you mention, and the fact that one ways are so expensive, I'm guessing this is international? If so, besides price, you may have problems flying the outbound with only a one way ticket, depending on the destination, as some countries require proof of return or continuing travel as a condition of entry.
The other question I'd ask is, can you buy a roundtrip that's changeable for a fee? If so, the best bet - in terms of cost, and imigration issues, and staying within airline CoC rules - might be to buy the roundtrip with a far out or best guess return date, then paying the fee to change the return once you know the date you need.
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: PHL
Posts: 54
I just want to state that I'm not trying to be argumentative just to be argumentative (or whatever phrase0.
I've come into all the countries multiple times on one way without an issue.
Any flavor or combination of refundable is much more expensive than buying two one ways.
People violate the below stated Contract of Carriage all the time. Two wrongs don't make a right ... .
In my imagined scheme I am going to buy a round trip ticket with a return date of the earliest possible return date. If I cannot make it I am going to cancel and buy another round trip ticket with the earliest possible return date. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Buying the cheapest fares, what should I do to stay in compliance of the Contract of Carriage if I cannot make the return flight? Just pay United more money?
I've come into all the countries multiple times on one way without an issue.
Any flavor or combination of refundable is much more expensive than buying two one ways.
People violate the below stated Contract of Carriage all the time. Two wrongs don't make a right ... .
In my imagined scheme I am going to buy a round trip ticket with a return date of the earliest possible return date. If I cannot make it I am going to cancel and buy another round trip ticket with the earliest possible return date. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Buying the cheapest fares, what should I do to stay in compliance of the Contract of Carriage if I cannot make the return flight? Just pay United more money?
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,393
To cut it short, do this twenty times or so and you should expect a phone call or email notification that you FF account is closed with all miles gone. Whether it's nested tickets, throwaway ticketing, end on end, or hidden city, you'll eventually get found out if it's a regular event. You're not the first bright spark.
#21
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,439
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,012
I'm still trying to figure out the basics of the scenario....an expensive, long-haul destination where United is the *only* carrier flying there? If OP originates from near PHL, she'd theoretically have access to all three alliances out of PHL/EWR/JFK and could throw 1 trip to another airline and avoid *any* potential CoC issues. You'd collect miles on all trips, earn elite status on at least one carrier, and maybe even set it up so all you "lost" was an occasional change fee on a ticket with a distant-future return date.
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: PHL
Posts: 54
I'm still trying to figure out the basics of the scenario....an expensive, long-haul destination where United is the *only* carrier flying there? If OP originates from near PHL, she'd theoretically have access to all three alliances out of PHL/EWR/JFK and could throw 1 trip to another airline and avoid *any* potential CoC issues. You'd collect miles on all trips, earn elite status on at least one carrier, and maybe even set it up so all you "lost" was an occasional change fee on a ticket with a distant-future return date.
How much is the change fee?
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,012
Varies by airline, ticket type, and often destination (domestic vs. int'l).
Do a sample booking and you should be able to find out what the change fee is.
Do a sample booking and you should be able to find out what the change fee is.
#25
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler, *A Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hertz Five Star,
Posts: 1,301
I have done this a few times. Never had an issue.

